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Thread: By God, this is the last straw!

  1. #1
    Bopa Member Incongruous's Avatar
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    Default By God, this is the last straw!

    I don't care if it is not important!
    I'm sick of these pigs selling away my damned country!
    Kill 'em, bloody send them to Pakistan! I don't bloody care! Gordon Brown should be shot in the street! Mandlseon hanged! If the Tories are no better, bloody shoot them!

    I am sick and bloody tired of politicians treating my homeland like a hole, I demand anyone residning in the UK to do their utmost to protests against this outrage and so many others before, god first they wanted to destroy the home of the first computer and now this, plus many others.

    You know, I actually now believe it when old geezers say the country is going to the damned dogs, no one gives a bloody toss. The commons must be got rid of, along with the rest of the bloody Westminster farce

    Scoundrels!

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...-3bn-deal.html
    Last edited by Incongruous; 12-16-2008 at 09:32.

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    Poll Smoker Senior Member CountArach's Avatar
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    Default Re: By God, this is the last straw!

    For-profit mail? Good luck with that.
    Rest in Peace TosaInu, the Org will be your legacy
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    Default Re: By God, this is the last straw!

    From the article....Lord Mandelson, the Business Secretary...that says it all .

  4. #4
    Bopa Member Incongruous's Avatar
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    Default Re: By God, this is the last straw!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tribesman View Post
    From the article....Lord Mandelson, the Business Secretary...that says it all .
    Yeah, pretty bloody much!

    Smoke and mirrors! Blow and bollocks! That man should be banished from the realm!
    I wonder which German mailman Mandy is in bed with?
    I hope Labour are destroyed after the next election.

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    Horse Archer Senior Member Sarmatian's Avatar
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    Default Re: By God, this is the last straw!

    Because they sold 1/3 of the Royal Post??? Why's that such a big deal?

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    Poll Smoker Senior Member CountArach's Avatar
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    Default Re: By God, this is the last straw!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarmatian View Post
    Because they sold 1/3 of the Royal Post??? Why's that such a big deal?
    The Royal Post is a public institution paid for by public money. Selling off a third of it means that those who buy the one third stake will be gaining money from a public institution... for no good reason... Once something becomes privatised it will only serve the interest of its shareholders, not the wider society - which is clearly undesirable when it comes to something this crucial.

    Oh and how could I forget that the entire institution has been built through taxpayer dollars meaning that the infrastructure is already in place. Hence while these people profit off the Royal post, the taxpayers have put in the hard yards already.
    Last edited by CountArach; 12-16-2008 at 11:55.
    Rest in Peace TosaInu, the Org will be your legacy
    Quote Originally Posted by Leon Blum - For All Mankind
    Nothing established by violence and maintained by force, nothing that degrades humanity and is based on contempt for human personality, can endure.

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    A very, very Senior Member Adrian II's Avatar
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    Default Re: By God, this is the last straw!

    Quote Originally Posted by CountArach View Post
    Once something becomes privatised it will only serve the interest of its shareholders, not the wider society - which is clearly undesirable when it comes to something this crucial.
    Sounds like another hair-brained privatisation scheme with no guarantees of genuine competition and no benefits to the public.

    We've seen this in The Neds where TNT took over. My mail is now delivered by a 16-year-old incompetent on a bike, usually to a guy three blocks removed who happens to have the same name as me. And if I want to file a complaint, I am connected to a 'call center' where other 16-year-old incompetents work the phones. Oh, and it's become more expensive than ever to send a package and no one can explain why that is. Apparently the TNT managers have decided that package mail is an inelastic demand and they can charge whatever the hell they like. It sure is. Granny is going to send that home-knitted sweater to her grandchild anyway.

    For 15 euros...
    The bloody trouble is we are only alive when we’re half dead trying to get a paragraph right. - Paul Scott

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    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: By God, this is the last straw!

    Never had a problem with TNT, reliable & cheap. 15 euro for a sweater? Where you sending it the moon?

    Oh and how could I forget that the entire institution has been built through taxpayer dollars meaning that the infrastructure is already in place. Hence while these people profit off the Royal post, the taxpayers have put in the hard yards already.

    Agreed.

  9. #9
    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: By God, this is the last straw!

    Sounds like what happened when we privatized our electrical industry here... In the past, we had cheap electricity, and there was never any talk of shortages. Now, however, our electrical bills have tripled or more, and there are shortages every bloody winter.

    It *might* have something to do with the new private owners trying to squeeze every penny out of their customers... And as an added bonus, our heating systems are mostly based on electricity, because we used to have a lot of clean and cheap hydropower. Now we're switching to burning gas, oil and wood, with some half-arsed attempts to subsidize "green" electricity... What, like the thing we used before?

    Our postage sector is well underway for privatization too. It's already suffering because of rationalization and tax cuts with following budget cuts, I can't wait for the days when some schmuck decides to sell it off to owners who want profit from it. I'll probably have to drive to the capital and pick it up myself.
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

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    This comment is witty! Senior Member LittleGrizzly's Avatar
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    Default Re: By God, this is the last straw!

    ohh privatisation.... great, expect service to drop... prices to go up.... and then in a few years the goverment will slowly start giving this money back to the company in subsidies.... its a lose lose as far as im concerned

    Postal service is something i think should remain a public service rather than a for profit one..... looks like that dutch company TNT is going to get it... 15 euro's did you say ? i suppose at least that will discourage the sending of crappy clothes from well meaning older relatives, just send the money it'll be cheaper for you :D
    In remembrance of our great Admin Tosa Inu, A tireless worker with the patience of a saint. As long as I live I will not forget you. Thank you for everything!

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    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: By God, this is the last straw!

    Quote Originally Posted by LittleGrizzly View Post
    ohh privatisation.... great, expect service to drop... prices to go up.... and then in a few years the goverment will slowly start giving this money back to the company in subsidies....
    When it's done the wrong way, that is making being semi-public where companies have to work with a fixed price, how much do you pay for calling someone on your cellphone nowadays?

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    Moderator Moderator Gregoshi's Avatar
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    Default Re: By God, this is the last straw!

    Sounds like the UK will need some mail enhancement medications...at least for the private parts.
    This space intentionally left blank

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    Enlightened Despot Member Vladimir's Avatar
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    Default Re: By God, this is the last straw!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bopa the Magyar View Post
    I don't care if it is not important!
    I'm sick of these pigs selling away my damned country!
    Kill 'em, bloody send them to Pakistan! I don't bloody care! Gordon Brown should be shot in the street! Mandlseon hanged! If the Tories are no better, bloody shoot them!

    I am sick and bloody tired of politicians treating my homeland like a hole, I demand anyone residning in the UK to do their utmost to protests against this outrage and so many others before, god first they wanted to destroy the home of the first computer and now this, plus many others.

    You know, I actually now believe it when old geezers say the country is going to the damned dogs, no one gives a bloody toss. The commons must be got rid of, along with the rest of the bloody Westminster farce

    Scoundrels!

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...-3bn-deal.html
    at the outrage!


    Reinvent the British and you get a global finance center, edible food and better service. Reinvent the French and you may just get more Germans.
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  14. #14
    Things Change Member JAG's Avatar
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    Default Re: By God, this is the last straw!

    disgrace.
    Last edited by JAG; 12-16-2008 at 17:49.
    GARCIN: I "dreamt," you say. It was no dream. When I chose the hardest path, I made my choice deliberately. A man is what he wills himself to be.
    INEZ: Prove it. Prove it was no dream. It's what one does, and nothing else, that shows the stuff one's made of.
    GARCIN: I died too soon. I wasn't allowed time to - to do my deeds.
    INEZ: One always dies too soon - or too late. And yet one's whole life is complete at that moment, with a line drawn neatly under it, ready for the summing up. You are - your life, and nothing else.

    Jean Paul Sartre - No Exit 1944

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    Things Change Member JAG's Avatar
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    Default Re: By God, this is the last straw!

    In fact I am so off about this I might go to my local MP's office and burn my useless Labour card in her useless face.

    I am fuming, bad times ahead.
    Last edited by Ser Clegane; 12-16-2008 at 17:43. Reason: make daisies not f-bombs
    GARCIN: I "dreamt," you say. It was no dream. When I chose the hardest path, I made my choice deliberately. A man is what he wills himself to be.
    INEZ: Prove it. Prove it was no dream. It's what one does, and nothing else, that shows the stuff one's made of.
    GARCIN: I died too soon. I wasn't allowed time to - to do my deeds.
    INEZ: One always dies too soon - or too late. And yet one's whole life is complete at that moment, with a line drawn neatly under it, ready for the summing up. You are - your life, and nothing else.

    Jean Paul Sartre - No Exit 1944

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    Enlightened Despot Member Vladimir's Avatar
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    Default Re: By God, this is the last straw!

    Quote Originally Posted by JAG View Post
    disgrace.
    Another brilliant analysis of privatization.


    Reinvent the British and you get a global finance center, edible food and better service. Reinvent the French and you may just get more Germans.
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars
    How do you motivate your employees? Waterboarding, of course.
    Ik hou van ferme grieten en dikke pinten
    Down with dried flowers!
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



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    Darkside Medic Senior Member rory_20_uk's Avatar
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    Default Re: By God, this is the last straw!

    It's not a proper sale - the government takes all responsibility for the pension deficit - running at £7 BILLION and then sells off part of the rest for something to look good on the balance sheet.

    I'm sure it's not the most efficient service, and IMO if it is to be privitised it should be done as BT was with strict rules to ensure no loss of service (although in BT's case their phone boxes are fnally being reduced) - the company makes savings from efficiency and not just from loosing the debt burden / ruining services.

    An enemy that wishes to die for their country is the best sort to face - you both have the same aim in mind.
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    Liar and Trickster Senior Member Andres's Avatar
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    Default Re: By God, this is the last straw!

    Quote Originally Posted by Adrian II View Post
    We've seen this in The Neds where TNT took over. My mail is now delivered by a 16-year-old incompetent on a bike, usually to a guy three blocks removed who happens to have the same name as me. And if I want to file a complaint, I am connected to a 'call center' where other 16-year-old incompetents work the phones. Oh, and it's become more expensive than ever to send a package and no one can explain why that is. Apparently the TNT managers have decided that package mail is an inelastic demand and they can charge whatever the hell they like. It sure is. Granny is going to send that home-knitted sweater to her grandchild anyway.

    For 15 euros...
    Sounds exactly like what happened to De Post when it got privatised for 49 %.

    Not to mention the privatisation of Electrabel. Free market? Yeah right. A de facto monopoly position and prices of electricy and gas are absurdly high.

    Idem dito with Belgacom, formerly RTT, Belgian phone company.

    Once they privatise public transport, the end will be nigh.

    Bloody politicians, bah, they can take their free market and shove it where the sun never shines.
    Last edited by Andres; 12-16-2008 at 17:29.
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    Apr 04-Nov 11 Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: By God, this is the last straw!

    Wait......You get free school but you have to pay for mail? Ya'll are doing this backwards.
    “I was not designed to be forced. I will breathe after my own fashion. Let us see who is the strongest.” -Thoreau

    Sometimes chicken, sometimes feathers.


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    Horse Archer Senior Member Sarmatian's Avatar
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    Default Re: By God, this is the last straw!

    The main point is that only 1/3 was sold, so it's still in control of whoever was in control before. Fresh capital just might improve the services. No reason to get angry about it...

    I have the feeling that it's mostly because it's Royal Post. If it were Mike's Courier or Joe's Parcels and Letters Service, no one would care...

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    Darkside Medic Senior Member rory_20_uk's Avatar
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    Default Re: By God, this is the last straw!

    Capital isn't the issue.

    Issues are increasing the automation of post and fewer, larger sorting offices. Selling 1/3 and then changing nothing is merely a way of making the balance sheet of the country look better today.

    An enemy that wishes to die for their country is the best sort to face - you both have the same aim in mind.
    Science flies you to the moon, religion flies you into buildings.
    "If you can't trust the local kleptocrat whom you installed by force and prop up with billions of annual dollars, who can you trust?" Lemur
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    The Usual Member Ice's Avatar
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    Default Re: By God, this is the last straw!

    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    Wait......You get free school but you have to pay for mail? Ya'll are doing this backwards.
    There is no free lunch, Strike.



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    Spirit King Senior Member seireikhaan's Avatar
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    Default Re: By God, this is the last straw!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kush View Post
    There is no free lunch, Strike.
    Sure there is. You just have to make sure nobody notices you taking it.
    It is better to conquer yourself than to win a thousand battles. Then, the victory is yours. It cannot be taken from you, not by angels or by demons, heaven or hell.

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    Bopa Member Incongruous's Avatar
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    Default Re: By God, this is the last straw!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarmatian View Post
    The main point is that only 1/3 was sold, so it's still in control of whoever was in control before. Fresh capital just might improve the services. No reason to get angry about it...

    I have the feeling that it's mostly because it's Royal Post. If it were Mike's Courier or Joe's Parcels and Letters Service, no one would care...
    Royal, bloody, Mail, the oldest postal service in the world is being flogged off in the most incompitent fashion. Whats more, they swore they would not do it, not even The Iron Lady dared to, this Mandleson thinks he is god.

    Fresh capital? Improvement! What the hell? Do even know what happens when a public service is privatised? Clearly you do not. There is no competition really is there? These called shareholders (who make large sums of money by doing piss all) will do everything in their power to ruin a national institution.

    I have every reason to be angry at a known criminal! And one in government at that.
    Last edited by Banquo's Ghost; 12-17-2008 at 08:34. Reason: Language

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    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: By God, this is the last straw!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarmatian View Post
    The main point is that only 1/3 was sold, so it's still in control of whoever was in control before. Fresh capital just might improve the services. No reason to get angry about it...
    Fresh capital? That's the reason a private company sells off some stock... Government owned companies have access to the biggest source of income in the nation, the treasury. There's no need to sell stuff off to get money, unless the country in question is doing seriously bad and desperately needs some quick cash. I honestly can't say Britain is in that situation... This is idealism, nothing else. Market libby idealism.
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

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    Member Member PBI's Avatar
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    Default Re: By God, this is the last straw!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bopa the Magyar
    this Mandleson thinks he is god.
    The man literally has no shame, so this latest turn of events is depressing but not surprising.

    What I am still scratching my head about is how a man who is almost universally unpopular and with a known record of incompetence and corruption still managed to worm his way back into power despite having been twice previously forced to resign in disgrace.

    Regarding the privatisation itself; although I can see the argument that the free market can be more efficient and deliver a better service than a state-owned entity, the fact is that every major privatisation of a public service in my lifetime has resulted in a sharp drop in service and all manner of scandals and dirty dealings. I honestly don't know whether this is simply due to the government consistently favouring their cronies every time there is such a selloff, or if there are just some areas which are simply to conducive to price fixing and profiteering for a free market to function properly.
    Last edited by Banquo's Ghost; 12-17-2008 at 08:35. Reason: Edited quote

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    Horse Archer Senior Member Sarmatian's Avatar
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    Default Re: By God, this is the last straw!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bopa the Magyar View Post
    Royal, bloody, Mail, the oldest postal service in the world is being flogged off in the most incompitent fashion. Whats more, they swore they would not do it, not even The Iron Lady dared to, this Mandleson thinks he is god.

    Fresh capital? Improvement! What the hell? Do even know what happens when a public service is privatised? Clearly you do not. There is no competition really is there? These called shareholders (who make large sums of money by doing piss all) will do everything in their power to ruin a national institution.

    I have every reason to be angry at a known criminal! And one in government at that.
    Bah. As a customer I'm interested only how good is the service and how much money it costs. Whether it's owned by bunch of corrupt and morally bankrupt politicians or a bunch of corrupt and morally bankrupt businessmen - not really important. I agree that in certain areas government should always have a final say and I'd understand your point of view if they'd tried to sell of 2/3, but since they're in control of more than 51%, I see no reason for such an outburst.

    If I'm not mistaken, postal services are private in the US. I've never had any problem with postal services there. Quick, cheap and efficient...

    Quote Originally Posted by HoreTore View Post
    Fresh capital? That's the reason a private company sells off some stock... Government owned companies have access to the biggest source of income in the nation, the treasury. There's no need to sell stuff off to get money, unless the country in question is doing seriously bad and desperately needs some quick cash. I honestly can't say Britain is in that situation... This is idealism, nothing else. Market libby idealism.
    You obviously have a wrong idea how it works. Treasury is not some room where huge piles of money are stored. It's not like prime minister can tell the janitor: "Hey, bring me a couple of billions from the treasury, we need to invest in postal system!". No, every penny has it's purpose. It's a time of relative big economic crisis, British budget certainly felt it. Hell, only that 2.5% (or whatever) VAT cut means billions and billions less revenue for the state. Post probably needed some investment, and they decided that instead of taking away more money from an already tight and strained budget, they get that capital from abroad. It's only 1/3, so the state is still fully in control. And I'd be surprised if Royal Post brought some huge revenues to the state.

    I admit I'm not familiar with this particular deal, but I sincerely doubt that someone from the government decided to sell of 33% of the Royal Post just for the fun of it...

    Discussing whether that money was needed, how much (if any) revenues the state would lose long term because of it, will the service be improved etc... is ok. But instead of it, it's all about: "Hey, it's Royal Post. You know, I mean Royal Post. Like, Royal Post."
    Last edited by Banquo's Ghost; 12-17-2008 at 08:35. Reason: Edited quote

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    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: By God, this is the last straw!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarmatian View Post
    I've never had any problem with postal services there. Quick, cheap and efficient...
    Indeed it is:

    "The United States Postal Service (USPS) is an independent agency of the United States government (see 39 U.S.C. § 201) responsible for providing postal service in the United States."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_Postal_Service

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarmatian View Post
    You obviously have a wrong idea how it works. Treasury is not some room where huge piles of money are stored. It's not like prime minister can tell the janitor: "Hey, bring me a couple of billions from the treasury, we need to invest in postal system!". No, every penny has it's purpose. It's a time of relative big economic crisis, British budget certainly felt it. Hell, only that 2.5% (or whatever) VAT cut means billions and billions less revenue for the state. Post probably needed some investment, and they decided that instead of taking away more money from an already tight and strained budget, they get that capital from abroad. It's only 1/3, so the state is still fully in control. And I'd be surprised if Royal Post brought some huge revenues to the state.
    BAH! We're talking about the bloody UK here, not some tiny pacific island. They've got the cash. As I said, for a government to start selling off stuff, they'd have to be in deep . The UK isn't even close. The postal service needs a billion or two for infrastructure, you say? Well then, the answer is easy; borrow some money(like states do all the freakin' time), take some from some other place, dig into the treasury reserve, etc etc. The UK isn't in the position where it has to sell stuff to caugh up some cash.

    But, no, nobody is doing this "for fun". They're doing it for ideological reasons. Idealists. It has nothing to do with the real world, just like every other idiot privatization out there.

    Note that I'm not criticizing privatization in general, I'm criticizing unnecessary privatization. For some people, privatization isn't a means to an end, it's the ultimate goal itself. Bad things happen when those people enter the real world, as there are a bunch of businesses who are much better of in state hands.
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

  29. #29
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, Cub Shoot 2 Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Treasure Diver Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Slack Man Champion, Japanese Baseball Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Super Mario Mushroom Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Fish Kill Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, KF 9000 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: By God, this is the last straw!

    Quote Originally Posted by HoreTore View Post
    Indeed it is:

    "The United States Postal Service (USPS) is an independent agency of the United States government...
    So are Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and Ginnie Mae -- do not assume that "independent agency of the United States government" is anything resembling a panacea.

    Even when semi-privatized, the USPS retained a monopoly on 1 oz. "first class" mail. FEDEX and others were competing for everything else. The USPS service is the same, or slower but costs slightly less than FEDEX or DHL....but for some reason they keep raising the price of stamps on their monopolized service FASTER than any other analogous service.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Ryan, Orlando Sentinel, 5-8-2005
    Consider this: In 1984, the year Ma Bell was broken up, the average long-distance phone call cost 28 cents per minute. Meanwhile, a first-class stamp cost 20 cents. Today, the average long-distance telephone rate has plummeted to 11 cents, while stamps have soared to 37 cents. If telephone prices had risen with inflation like stamps, a long-distance call today would cost a whopping 51 cents per minute
    .

    Today, that LD call is under $05/minute, but the stamp is $0.42 and going to $0.43 in May.


    You can make arguments that government can provide services no other provider could or that government can apportion a resource or service more equitably (I'd argue that, but it is at least a valid argument), but do NOT assume that cost and efficiency are hallmarks of goverment control. The best to hope for with government is that it's "break-even" compared to the private sector.
    Last edited by Seamus Fermanagh; 12-17-2008 at 00:56.
    "The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken

  30. #30

    Default Re: By God, this is the last straw!

    Bah. As a customer I'm interested only how good is the service and how much money it costs.
    And as in this case if you were in Britain you wouldn't just be a customer , you through taxes would be the financier .
    How happy would you be to have the profitable interests taken from you for a pittance while you retained the non-profitable parts and all accumulated and future debts ?

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