Immigration Question

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Or we could help them out of just being an underclass... who knows? - they might actually become a functioning member of society!

But why should we accept them into our country just so we can spend money making them functioning members of society? Why not, instead, get immigrants with qualifications and just teach them English/German/Norwegian?

[Sarmatian]

But why should we accept them into our country just so we can spend money making them functioning members of society? Why not, instead, get immigrants with qualifications and just teach them English/German/Norwegian?

Because for some jobs you don't need qualifications. If you think that a university professor from eastern Europe is going to come to Germany to clean toilets, you're really in for a surprise. For cleaning toilets, you'll get a guy who doesn't have any qualifications. From my short experience in the US, I got the impression that no one had any problem with immigrants as long as they took jobs Americans didn't want. But, when they started taking jobs Americans actually do want, there's an immigration problem.

But, you guys are all forgetting that you need increasing population to keep the economy going. I remember reading that in the next several decades, EU is going to be short of about 20 million workers. So, like it or not, EU will have to import workers or the economy will suffer. I don't have the numbers for US, but I'm sure it's a similar situation...

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Because for some jobs you don't need qualifications. If you think that a university professor from eastern Europe is going to come to Germany to clean toilets, you're really in for a surprise. For cleaning toilets, you'll get a guy who doesn't have any qualifications. From my short experience in the US, I got the impression that no one had any problem with immigrants as long as they took jobs Americans didn't want. But, when they started taking jobs Americans actually do want, there's an immigration problem.

Indeed. But in this scenario, we should take exactly what we need, and those who do come should have a knowledge of our language. This doesn't mean they have to speak it at home, but they have to know what I'm telling them. Say a grace period of a year to get a moderate grasp of the language, and if they can't meet it...

[Sarmatian]

Indeed. But in this scenario, we should take exactly what we need, and those who do come should have a knowledge of our language. This doesn't mean they have to speak it at home, but they have to know what I'm telling them. Say a grace period of a year to get a moderate grasp of the language, and if they can't meet it...

What's deal here? Assimilation or how good a job they're doing? If it some menial, repetitive job, like bring Box A to the place B, their command of the language needn't be anything special.

If it's some job you need qualifications for, like some managerial job - well, in that case those who don't speak the language (or are unwilling to learn it) generally won't be interested in the job, because in order to do that job well, quality of communication needs to be high.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

What's deal here? Assimilation or how good a job they're doing? If it some menial, repetitive job, like bring Box A to the place B, their command of the language needn't be anything special.

If there is any chance of them staying in the country permanently, then yes, they need to have a grasp of the language, no ifs, ands, or buts.

[Fragony]

If there is any chance of them staying in the country permanently, then yes, they need to have a grasp of the language, no ifs, ands, or buts.

Mwah if it isn't a job requirement. If someone has made absolutely no effort out of being of any use then no welfare check when unemployed. Lefties aren't equiped to understand that when all your daddy wanted was an additional tit on his goat it's hard to be impressed by the poverty that is having electricity running water and seperate rooms for the kids and only one holiday a year, might be poverty to them and their comrades but immigrants are from the big tall.

[KukriKhan]

... but immigrants are from the big tall.

I think I understand the rest of the post, but that part has me confused. What is "the big tall"?

[Sarmatian]

If there is any chance of them staying in the country permanently, then yes, they need to have a grasp of the language, no ifs, ands, or buts.

What about democracy, human right...? You can't force people to speak a language, you can't force them to adapt to certain culture and change their own customs and traditions...

[rory_20_uk]

Not force. But not lift a finger to help. And if their culture causes a breach of the peace, causes offence to one's neighbours then these activities should be restricted by the police.

E.G. this discussion board is in English. All people are welcome - as long as they can read and write English.

Personally I think if you want to emigrate to a country you should at the very least not cause offence to the local culture - even at the expense of your own: I can't, nor do I feel I should be able to walk in Mecca enjoying a bottle of whisky along with a pork sandwich.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

What about democracy, human right...? You can't force people to speak a language, you can't force them to adapt to certain culture and change their own customs and traditions...

You are correct - we can't force them. But we can deny them entry if they refuse.

[Husar]

What about democracy, human right...? You can't force people to speak a language, you can't force them to adapt to certain culture and change their own customs and traditions...

No, you can't force them but if you can't understand them you can not employ them etc.