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Thread: Attack and defense compare

  1. #1
    Member Member Cyrus's Avatar
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    Default Attack and defense compare

    Hi to all
    in my noumerous campaigns i've noticed very peculiar things, such as the stats for various celtic units and of other regions, but to a lesser extent. allow me to elaborate, i'm shure many have noticed this before me but there is no thread on it, if we take the celtic levy spearman and read his stats well' see:

    attack 15 total defence 17, his attack is higher than that of the pricipes, seems kinda weird to me, what about yall? let's go on, the golbery curoas (northern gallic mercenary swordsman);

    he has 10 in attack..... even he has less than the lugoae.......... of course in the battles you can tell who always has the upper hand between an untrained, hastily-raised levy and a professional merc, but if you are a noob such as myself you think the lugoae is a great unit and the curoas suck,
    so my question is why are some unit stats so very wrong?


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    The Forgotten one Member Onehandstan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attack and defense compare

    It isn't wrong, it's just there is a third stat, lethality that you can't see, the Attack stat decides whether the blow will hit and lethality whether it will kill, swords generally have a higher lethality then spears but they are also for different roles.
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    I is da bestest at grammar Member Strategos Alexandros's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attack and defense compare

    No. It does get a bit confusing though, because some stats, such as lethality are not shown in-game.
    As I understand it, attack determines whether or not an attack hits, but lethality determines whether or not it kills the enemy. The swordsmen have high lethality longswords and better morale than the Lugoae.

    Edit: argh, damn my slow typing!
    Last edited by Strategos Alexandros; 12-20-2008 at 18:50.
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    Guitar God Member Mediolanicus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attack and defense compare

    Swords have a +4 bonus.
    Plus there is also lethality to take in account.

    But there are some who say the spear attack should be lowered. Maybe a team member can explain better.
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    Arrogant Ashigaru Moderator Ludens's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Re: Attack and defense compare

    There are two factors at work here. Firstly, all spear units receive a +4 bonus against cavalry and a -4 penalty against infantry. So the Lugoae actually has an attack value of 11 when fighting the Botroas. Secondly, the attack value determines the chance of a hit occurring, but not whether the hit is deadly. The deadliness of a weapon is determined by the lethality. The lethality of a spear is 0.125 (= 12,5% chance that a hit kills the target), but that of a Celtic longsword a wopping 0.225. The Lugoae may score a few more hits than the Botroas, but the hits of the Botroas are almost twice as likely to kill.
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    The Forgotten one Member Onehandstan's Avatar
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    Question Re: Attack and defense compare

    speaking of lethality, what is the most lethal weapon of all? Close combat weapons not ranged
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    I is da bestest at grammar Member Strategos Alexandros's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attack and defense compare

    Probably either the Thraikian Rhomphaia or the Indian axe/sword/thingymabob that those guild warriors use.
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    Member Member Cyrus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attack and defense compare

    ok so how can i tell how strong a unit is without having to do all that reasoning?


    Italians do it better! Chi dice donna dice guai. Abbi donna di te minore, se vuoi essere signore. Donne e buoi dei paesi tuoi. Fiume, grondaia e donna parlatora mandano l'uomo di casa fuora.
    And my personal favorite: "Non rimuovere il confine antico fissato dai tuoi padri". In english: "Do not remove the anchent border placed by your fathers". It looses something in the translation......

  9. #9
    The Forgotten one Member Onehandstan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attack and defense compare

    welllllllll, generally the unit description is very helpful and trial and error is perhaps the best way but the rule of thumb is swords = high lethality, spears = low lethality.
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    Villiage Idiot Member antisocialmunky's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attack and defense compare

    Quote Originally Posted by Onehandstan View Post
    speaking of lethality, what is the most lethal weapon of all? Close combat weapons not ranged
    The Uncircumcised Wrathe of a Gaesatae's +9 Staff of Penetration - 100% Lethal
    Last edited by antisocialmunky; 12-20-2008 at 19:31.
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    Default Re: Attack and defense compare

    XD

    you can add the extra rule: the letality increaces with lenth and strangenes.
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  12. #12
    Ming the Merciless is my idol Senior Member Watchman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attack and defense compare

    Dagger/knife (like many crap slingers and archers wield) - 0.04
    War-club (some Germans, Africans) - 0.09 IIRC (also -1 attack value, AP)
    Short sword - 0.1 (also +2 attack value)
    *Good* short sword (eg. gladius hispaniensis) - 0.13 (and +2 attack)
    Spear (over- and underhand) - 0.125 (+1 attack, "light_spear" weapon attribute funk)
    Xiphos (Greek mid-sized sword and similar) - 0.13 (+1 attack)
    Sica (Thraco-Dacian funky curvy blade) - ditto
    Kopis/falcata/machaira (concave-curved "recurve sabre") - 0.11 (AP)
    Axe/mace - 0.165 (-1 attack, AP)
    Longsword - 0.225
    Rhomphaia (the Indian longbowmens' big swords are treated as the same IIRC) - 0.26 IIRC (-something attack, AP; the Thracian peltasts' are slightly nerfed, as they're used one-handed)
    Big two-handed sword (some Celts, Indians) - 0.285 (-something attack, AP)

    Pikes had 0.15 IIRC, as do cavalry overhands. Cavalry underhand spears were 0.33, AP, 160 delay, xyston lances 0.38, AP, 180 delay and kontos lances 0.4, AP, 200 delay - and all had seriously low attack scores. IIRC.

    So yeah, Ca Putt's rule of thumb works pretty well.
    Last edited by Watchman; 12-20-2008 at 23:40.
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    Guest Aemilius Paulus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attack and defense compare

    Quote Originally Posted by Onehandstan View Post
    speaking of lethality, what is the most lethal weapon of all? Close combat weapons not ranged
    The cavalry of course, their spears & lances have lethality as high as .35
    Last edited by Aemilius Paulus; 12-21-2008 at 00:16.

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