Why did falcata style weapons disappear?

**MerlinusCDXX** · 12-21-2008, 02:49

Yeah, Pontius Pilate, they do look a bit crude, but for their function, they were effective. Those weapons were initially designed for footmen of uncertain quality and training to use against mounted, plate-armored opponents. Truth is, any weapon that uses piercing as its damage vector will probably stick when faced with plate armor, and crushing/bludgeoning weapons, unless one is trained in their use and has undergone physical conditioning, are often too slow to allow the type of troops that used these polearms to effectively strike a mounted knight with a solid enough blow to do damage. These polearms were brutally effective against mounted knights because of the various projections and hooks that allowed the user to pull a knight off his horse and strike with the blade facing any direction. The user did not have to worry about turning the blade to get a hit, or in the case of bludgeoning weapons, keep momentum going in order to do damage.

**dominique** · 12-21-2008, 16:23

Originally Posted by MerlinusCDXX

Yeah, Pontius Pilate, they do look a bit crude, but for their function, they were effective. Those weapons were initially designed for footmen of uncertain quality and training to use against mounted, plate-armored opponents.

(here I will use the term halberd to speak about all 6 foot kind of hast weapons)

They look crude, but the martial art associated with it isn't. An halberd is a fancy, close-quarter weapon used against armored infantry. See: http://www.thearma.org/spotlight/lejeudelahache.htm

Essentially, a halberd is an advanced battle axe with swiss knife functions.

Originally Posted by MerlinusCDXX

Truth is, any weapon that uses piercing as its damage vector will probably stick when faced with plate armor, and crushing/bludgeoning weapons, unless one is trained in their use and has undergone physical conditioning, are often too slow to allow the type of troops that used these polearms to effectively strike a mounted knight with a solid enough blow to do damage. These polearms were brutally effective against mounted knights because of the various projections and hooks that allowed the user to pull a knight off his horse and strike with the blade facing any direction. The user did not have to worry about turning the blade to get a hit, or in the case of bludgeoning weapons, keep momentum going in order to do damage.

You mean the pike. The pike is an anti-cavalry weapon. There as much difference between the tactical use of a halberd and a pike than between a recoiless rifle and an assault rifle. It's not because they used a wooden pole for the pike and the halberd that the weapons are all used in the same way.

The halberd/bill-hook/bec-de-corbin/polaxe blade was not use to pierce through the plate, but through the visor or armpits when the guy in face was down. See:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqiS...eature=related

Oh and by the way, the halberd fighting style was developped to beat sword-and-shield-style. A marian legionnary would have been slaughtered by a burgundian halberdier.

For those who are interested, this shows the basic fighting techniques of this crude weapon used by

Originally Posted by MerlinusCDXX

footmen of uncertain quality

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTVC...x=0&playnext=1

**Cute Wolf** · 12-21-2008, 17:24

Oh and by the way, the halberd fighting style was developped to beat sword-and-shield-style. A marian legionnary would have been slaughtered by a burgundian halberdier.

that halberdiers will dead first if they face TRUE SPQR legionaries. They will become pilum cushions

Dismounted medieval knights didn't use any precursor missile weapons, as they think missile fight was "unchivalrous", so it was their obvious weakness if they face any skilled 2 handed weapons user, which in turns the 2 handed and without shields will easily pawned with crossbows...

**Philippus Flavius Homovallumus** · 12-21-2008, 17:58

Originally Posted by Cute Wolf

that halberdiers will dead first if they face TRUE SPQR legionaries. They will become pilum cushions

Dismounted medieval knights didn't use any precursor missile weapons, as they think missile fight was "unchivalrous", so it was their obvious weakness if they face any skilled 2 handed weapons user, which in turns the 2 handed and without shields will easily pawned with crossbows...

Actually, dismounted knights often used Halbards themselves, this precluded the use of thrown weapons but in general knights were known to employvery varried fighting styles, making use of everything from twin shortswords to crossbows. As far as vulnerability to pila goes, early knights carried shields and later knights had armour which might well have been pilum proof. For the Romans facing halbadiers would be like facing armoured falxmen.

**Cute Wolf** · 12-21-2008, 18:05

For the Romans facing halbadiers would be like facing armoured falxmen.

Like noble falxmen in XGM?

Actually, dismounted knights often used Halbards themselves, this precluded the use of thrown weapons but in general knights were known to employvery varried fighting styles, making use of everything from twin shortswords...

Remind me about these vanilla ninjas (Arcanii)

early knights carried shields and later knights had armour which might well have been pilum proof

Pilum stuck to their shields, making it useless, and at least the pilum will hamper the enemy's movement, and disorganize their formations, which the romans are expert to exploit...

They are still pilum cushions...

**Pontius Pilate** · 12-21-2008, 18:29

Originally Posted by dominique

Oh and by the way, the halberd fighting style was developped to beat sword-and-shield-style. A marian legionnary would have been slaughtered by a burgundian halberdier.

once again, as with Aemilius Paulus' previous statement this is debateable and just an opinion. there is really no sure way to know who would win in a fight. the two fighting styles were utilized in different time periods nearly a thousand years apart. weapons and fighting styles used centuries ago wouldn't exactly stand up to weapons today would they? I'm just trying to say people shouldn't throw around opinions like they are facts.

**Philippus Flavius Homovallumus** · 12-21-2008, 19:06

Originally Posted by Cute Wolf

Like noble falxmen in XGM?

Remind me about these vanilla ninjas (Arcanii)

Pilum stuck to their shields, making it useless, and at least the pilum will hamper the enemy's movement, and disorganize their formations, which the romans are expert to exploit...

They are still pilum cushions...

I don' think so, Norman knights in particular are pound-for-pound better than Roman legionaries, bigger, more highly skilled and better equipped. The Normans were also diciplined, unlike many later Knights. If the pila stick in the knights shields they can discard their shields and use their axes or spears. Hardly a forgone conclusion.