Why did falcata style weapons disappear?

[Ibrahim]

long time no see Burakuku!

anyways: didn't the falcata or Kopis influence the Kukri, or is it a coincidence? just wondering on these weapons

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Ah, now that's right on the money. It would in fact almost be correct to say that the Kukri is a falceta. http://www.random-abstract.com/kukri/

So there you go, it didn't die out.

[ironanvil1]

Ah, now that's right on the money. It would in fact almost be correct to say that the Kukri is a falceta. http://www.random-abstract.com/kukri/

So there you go, it didn't die out.

It was the continuing existence of the kukri as a useful multi-purpose weapon/tool that made me wonder about the disappearance of similar weapons from Europe.

[blitzkrieg80]

burakuku, I was saying I agreed on the tanks, but OT, back to the point...

12th Century, well that certainly makes it sit better in my stomach, sorry to jump on that but I am wary of Hsiung Nu == Huns based on research I've done and how often Greco-Romans thinking everybody must fit into their box... the thing with the Habsburgs sounds spot on (no expert there myself), I am not very fond of the 'shield-wall' etymology of schiltrom concerning Anglo-Saxon language, so that sounds much more likely

[Emperor Burakuku]

Something is wrong with me these days. I'm in a too much of a hurry like the rest of the planet I guess. About the Hsiung Nu I take your word for it. About the swiss pikemen it goes like this. Leopold I the duke of Austria and head of the hause of Habsburg somehow thaught it would be a good ideea to enlarge his domains on the expense of the poor swiss peasants. And in 1315 at Morgarten they thought him some manners. It said that they used this formation protecting themselves from all sides somhow. Now I'm gonna watch the thread and shut my mouth.

P.S And I meant 13th not 12th century - the mongol invasion. In the second half. Something's wrong with me, maybe it's the Holidays

[Aurgelmir]

The Billhook is not inspired by the falceta. The Falceta is a curved versions of typical Indo-European leafblade, the billhook is a pruning knife on the end of a pole.

Burakuku, Blitz was saying that the schiltron is a shieldcircle, it's litterally a shieldwall bent back on it's self. Anyone who is surrounded will invent that, similarilly with the square pike formation, used to great effect by the Greeks.

yeah....i didn't mean falcate lol

I meant the scythe like weapons

srry about that

[Watchman]

Scythes are agricultural tools for mowing down grass and whatnot for fodder (sickles were favoured for cutting grain, as there was less wastage that way). They suck pretty utterly as combat weapons, both the overall design and the blade characteristics being manifestly ill-suited for use on human bodies.

There's a bunch of good reasons why transverse blades on real weapons were invariably rather short and stout...

And in 1315 at Morgarten they thought him some manners. It said that they used this formation protecting themselves from all sides somhow.

Er... no. You're thinking of some of the latter battles on open field, where the pikemen of the lowland cantons were already involved. (In one it was found out the hard way the halberd was too short to fully counter the lance in open terrain, requiring the hard pressed halberdiers to be rescued by the pikemen once they'd dealt with their opponents; thereafter the halberds were integrated into the pike squares as a reserve force for close assault.)


Anyway, AFAIK falcata-type blades effectively went extinct in Europe and neighbouring areas by the first centuries AD if not earlier already. Or at least I've never ever heard of such being used anymore. There were *straight* single-edged swords around of course - 's good for cut-oriented designs - and eventually the true sabre evolved on the Pontic steppe around what, 7th century or so, but that's a very different beast in just about every respect that counts. And then you had the Medieval falchion, but again, that's basically a straight single-edger. The only really similar blade type I can think of is the Early Modern Ottoman yatagan (yataghan, w/e...), which might have been derived from an isolated surviving kopis tradition. (For what it's worth the Wiki article mentions a connection to the region of Luristan in the Zagros mountains; mountain areas often acted as kinds of "time capsules" that preserved in relative isolation old traditions and customs long since extinct elsewhere, so that's reasonably credible IMHO.)
Around the last decades of the 19th century some European armies copied that design for sword-bayonets, for what it's worth.