Something is wrong with me these days. I'm in a too much of a hurry like the rest of the planet I guess. About the Hsiung Nu I take your word for it. About the swiss pikemen it goes like this. Leopold I the duke of Austria and head of the hause of Habsburg somehow thaught it would be a good ideea to enlarge his domains on the expense of the poor swiss peasants. And in 1315 at Morgarten they thought him some manners. It said that they used this formation protecting themselves from all sides somhow. Now I'm gonna watch the thread and shut my mouth.

P.S And I meant 13th not 12th century - the mongol invasion. In the second half. Something's wrong with me, maybe it's the Holidays