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Thread: The Basileus Has Questions

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    Βασιλευς και Αυτοκρατωρ Αρχης Member Centurio Nixalsverdrus's Avatar
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    Default The Basileus Has Questions

    Hi,

    the Basileus is sorry to be a bother, but has questions on the Greek tongue again! Here is what he wants to know:

    1. I have modded the Ptolemaic Basilikon Agema to a kind of sword-carrying Thorakitai. What means "Sword-carrying Thorakitai" in Greek? They carry a Kopis. I thought of "Hysteroi Thorakitai", but the original Thorakitai is not obsolete. So Thorakitai Machairaphoroi or Thorakitai Kopi...pheroi, what do you say?

    2. I want to reform my government so that the lvl 1 gov would not only represent the Makedonian homeland, but also territories that are thoroughly hellenized, with powerful Hellenic cities and a great part of the populace being Greek. Patris Makedonike kai Nomoi Hellenikoi was something that came to my mind. What would "thorough" be in Greek?

  2. #2

    Default Re: The Basileus Has Questions

    I am not worthy!

  3. #3
    Βασιλευς και Αυτοκρατωρ Αρχης Member Centurio Nixalsverdrus's Avatar
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    Default AW: The Basileus Has Questions

    Maion? Tellos? Keravnos?

    The Basileus has told me that he will reward the worthy noble who can help him with a Royal Balloon!
    Last edited by Centurio Nixalsverdrus; 12-22-2008 at 01:20.

  4. #4

    Default Re: The Basileus Has Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Centurio Nixalsverdrus View Post
    Hi,

    the Basileus is sorry to be a bother, but has questions on the Greek tongue again! Here is what he wants to know:

    1. I have modded the Ptolemaic Basilikon Agema to a kind of sword-carrying Thorakitai. What means "Sword-carrying Thorakitai" in Greek? They carry a Kopis. I thought of "Hysteroi Thorakitai", but the original Thorakitai is not obsolete. So Thorakitai Machairaphoroi or Thorakitai Kopi...pheroi, what do you say?
    There is a perfectly good substitute already available, you only have to look to the East. However, there is actually no need to change a name merely to be less descriptive. So what if the Agema decided to ditch the old junk, they're still the Agema alright?

    2. I want to reform my government so that the lvl 1 gov would not only represent the Makedonian homeland, but also territories that are thoroughly hellenized, with powerful Hellenic cities and a great part of the populace being Greek. Patris Makedonike kai Nomoi Hellenikoi was something that came to my mind. What would "thorough" be in Greek?
    Hmm, "teleios" (m), "teleia" (f), "teleion" (n).
    - Tellos Athenaios
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    ὁ δ᾽ ἠλίθιος ὣσπερ πρόβατον βῆ βῆ λέγων βαδίζει” – Kratinos in Dionysalexandros.

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    Member Member navarro951's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Basileus Has Questions

    Thorakitai Machairaphoroi would be the most correct...and i am positive as ancient Ptolemy swordsmen were Machairaphoroi until the Romans changed it.
    ~WotB~
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    ~BtSH~

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    Symbasileus ton Rhomaioktonon Member Maion Maroneios's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Basileus Has Questions

    That's an interesting idea, especially due to the fact that I have done exactly the same (with the Basilikon Agema model as well) What I did was to add them to the roster, edit their AoR and tweak their stats to match those of the Cohortes (sp?) Reformata. The rationale was that the Basileion (later Arche) would adapt to Roman tactics and create their own 'legionary' corps. So I named them Koorteis Makedonikai, or Makedonian Reformed Cohorts.

    As for your case now, you could do the same as me, or you could name them Machairophoroi, asd you suggested. Actually, due to the fact that they wield Kopeis (plural), Kopidophoroi would be more correct. So Thorakitai Machairophoroi or Kopidophoroi

    Regarding governments now, there are tons of names you could give them. It depends on the style you want to give them. For example, if you follow the Seleukid way of governship, you could name them Satrapeiai Makedonikai Stratiotikai, or Makedonian Military Satrapies. If you want something else, more like the Patris Makedonike but more Panhellenic (like I believe is your case), you should consider something like Patris Hellenike Makedonon (Hellenic Homeland of the Makedonians).

    Hope this helped,
    Maion
    ~Maion

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    Krusader's Nemesis Member abou's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Basileus Has Questions

    Thorakitai would be fine by itself, but you could also try Thorakitai Epilektoi. Also, you could go for a twist and try using the participle form: Machairophorontes Thorakitai.

    Although, my knowledge of Greek grammar is so small I don't know if you could really take my word for it.

  8. #8
    Symbasileus ton Rhomaioktonon Member Maion Maroneios's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Basileus Has Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by abou View Post
    Machairopherontes Thorakitai.

    Although, my knowledge of Greek grammar is so small I don't know if you could really take my word for it.
    Here you go

    Maion
    ~Maion

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    Βασιλευς και Αυτοκρατωρ Αρχης Member Centurio Nixalsverdrus's Avatar
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    Default AW: Re: The Basileus Has Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Tellos Athenaios View Post
    There is a perfectly good substitute already available, you only have to look to the East. However, there is actually no need to change a name merely to be less descriptive. So what if the Agema decided to ditch the old junk, they're still the Agema alright?
    But an agema is a guard. I totally revamped them, adapting their stats and AOR to that of Thorakitai, increasing their number to 40, changed their formation and their cost. Basically as Maion said.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maion Maroneios
    That's an interesting idea, especially due to the fact that I have done exactly the same (with the Basilikon Agema model as well) What I did was to add them to the roster, edit their AoR and tweak their stats to match those of the Cohortes (sp?) Reformata. The rationale was that the Basileion (later Arche) would adapt to Roman tactics and create their own 'legionary' corps. So I named them Koorteis Makedonikai, or Makedonian Reformed Cohorts.

    As for your case now, you could do the same as me, or you could name them Machairophoroi, asd you suggested. Actually, due to the fact that they wield Kopeis (plural), Kopidophoroi would be more correct. So Thorakitai Machairophoroi or Kopidophoroi
    Koortes sounds way to Roman to my ears. I think I go with Kopidopherontes Thorakitai.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maion Maroneios
    Regarding governments now, there are tons of names you could give them. It depends on the style you want to give them. For example, if you follow the Seleukid way of governship, you could name them Satrapeiai Makedonikai Stratiotikai, or Makedonian Military Satrapies. If you want something else, more like the Patris Makedonike but more Panhellenic (like I believe is your case), you should consider something like Patris Hellenike Makedonon (Hellenic Homeland of the Makedonians).
    But territories like Syria are not the Homeland of the Makedonians. They are more "thoroughly hellenized territories". Though indeed I am meaning something Panhellenic. The problem is the lvl 1 gov has to encompass both the traditional Makedonian homeland and the hellenized territories.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tellos Athenaios
    Hmm, "teleios" (m), "teleia" (f), "teleion" (n).
    Patris Makedonike kai Chorai Teleiai Hellenikai. Help!
    Last edited by Centurio Nixalsverdrus; 12-22-2008 at 19:51.

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    Symbasileus ton Rhomaioktonon Member Maion Maroneios's Avatar
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    Default Re: AW: Re: The Basileus Has Questions

    Good to see a fellow Makedon experimenting as well Hope to see some epic future AAR of yours

    Maion
    ~Maion

  11. #11

    Default Re: AW: Re: The Basileus Has Questions

    For your homeland option I would simply choose the use of ellipsis: "Nomoi Teleioi Makedonon". This uses a slightly different line of approach: from the assumption that your reformed Homelands are under thorough Makedonian control assume that we can speak of "nomoi" (customs, habits, customary law (adat in Indonesian law) -- "that which is in habitual practice, use or possession".

    http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin...try%3D%2371006
    - Tellos Athenaios
    CUF tool - XIDX - PACK tool - SD tool - EVT tool - EB Install Guide - How to track down loading CTD's - EB 1.1 Maps thread


    ὁ δ᾽ ἠλίθιος ὣσπερ πρόβατον βῆ βῆ λέγων βαδίζει” – Kratinos in Dionysalexandros.

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    Βασιλευς και Αυτοκρατωρ Αρχης Member Centurio Nixalsverdrus's Avatar
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    Default AW: The Basileus Has Questions

    Ah.

    I see I made a wrong assumption concerning the word "nomos" which I thought was a territory. My bad. I really suck at Greek.

    So, what I search for is something like a thoroughly hellenized land or province. Or was your proposal aimed to do without the word for territory? "(Territory of) thoroughly Makedonian law and customs"?
    Last edited by Centurio Nixalsverdrus; 12-22-2008 at 22:35.

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    Βασιλευς και Αυτοκρατωρ Αρχης Member Centurio Nixalsverdrus's Avatar
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    Default AW: The Basileus Has Questions

    So this is my plan: When Megas Antiochos dies his young son Limendas will become King. His treacherous cousins will take their chance to crown themselves kings (one in the west, one in the east) and get support from many greedy nobles in Pella. Limendas will beat them and renovate the Empire as follows:

    Gov. 1: Patris Makedonike / Satrapeia Hellenike
    The Makedonian homeland and Satrapies that are thoroughly hellenized. These are controlled more directly from Pella. Citizenship is hard to get but therefore offers all advantages of Makedonian and Hellenic civilization. The Satraps do not hold the power they would in a Royal Satrapy and act more like an administrator on behalf of the Makedonian state.
    Gov. 2: Satrapeia Basilike
    A Royal Satrapy. The King's land where he sets up loyal Makedonian nobles as Satraps. The Satraps are held responsible for their territory. They are appointed and dismissed by the King. Though they act as petty-kings in their territories, they certainly do not hold the power they would in a Seleukid satrapy.
    Gov. 3: Satrapeia HemiAutonomos
    A semi-autonomous Satrapy like the Seleukid ones. The Satrapy is granted a large degree of inner autonomy but is still an integral part of the Makedonian Empire. Shouldn't it be "Hemiautonome" btw?
    Gov. 4: Nomos Symmachos Autonomos
    No changes.

  14. #14
    Symbasileus ton Rhomaioktonon Member Maion Maroneios's Avatar
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    Default Re: AW: The Basileus Has Questions

    That's some interesting stuff there, Centurio Might consider doing somehting in the same lines sometime in the future, so I can draw some ideas from this topic.

    Maion
    ~Maion

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    Βασιλευς και Αυτοκρατωρ Αρχης Member Centurio Nixalsverdrus's Avatar
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    Default AW: The Basileus Has Questions

    Limendas is lame!

    Would the Makedonians ever accept a Basileus that is crippled?

  16. #16

    Default Re: The Basileus Has Questions

    Maybe he became lame in an unfortunate hunting accident. All caused by him being excessively manly and spending the night before drinking and carrousing until dawn.

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    Tuba Son Member Subotan's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Basileus Has Questions

    I'm thinking of changing the Expansion Government for the Epeirotes from "Epeirote Millitary Occupied Province" to "Thoroughly Hellenized Satrapy", and the Type Three to "Lightly Hellenized Satrapy", and the Type Four to "Independent Member of the Ambrakian Union", which I'm planning to initiate in my AAR pretty soon. Since my knowledge of Greek is limited to "Gymnos", translations would be much appreciated, as would the process of how to change the names.

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    Βασιλευς και Αυτοκρατωρ Αρχης Member Centurio Nixalsverdrus's Avatar
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    Default AW: The Basileus Has Questions

    Limendas is also swivel-eyed... But that's another topic.

    I'll go with Machairopherontes Thorakitai though, that sounds better than Kopidopherontes plus this unit is not characterized by a Kopis, but more by a slashing sword in general.

    The Basileus wishes to thank all of you, especially the nobles Tellos Athenaios and Maion Maroneios. Have a Royal Balloon both: for Maion and for Tellos.

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    Member Member Tudhaliya's Avatar
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    Default Re: AW: The Basileus Has Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Centurio Nixalsverdrus View Post
    [INDENT]A semi-autonomous Satrapy like the Seleukid ones. The Satrapy is granted a large degree of inner autonomy but is still an integral part of the Makedonian Empire. Shouldn't it be "Hemiautonome" btw?
    autonomos (m/f), autonomon (n) is one of those adjectives that show only two forms for gender - one for masc. and fem., and one for neut. It's that way because of the auto- prefix.

    EDIT

    Also, wouldn't a verb for "completly Hellenized" be something like "kathelledizein?" I mean, the Greeks had that beautifully productive class of "-izo" verbs (like nomizo). We might as well use them :)
    Last edited by Tudhaliya; 12-29-2008 at 21:47.

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    Symbasileus ton Rhomaioktonon Member Maion Maroneios's Avatar
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    Default Re: AW: The Basileus Has Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Subotan View Post
    I'm thinking of changing the Expansion Government for the Epeirotes from "Epeirote Millitary Occupied Province" to "Thoroughly Hellenized Satrapy", and the Type Three to "Lightly Hellenized Satrapy", and the Type Four to "Independent Member of the Ambrakian Union", which I'm planning to initiate in my AAR pretty soon.
    I believe you could get ideas from the above posts for "Thoroughly Hellenized Satrapy". For "Independent Member of the Ambrakian Union", I would go for "Nomos Autonomos Koinou Epeirou" (ΝΟΜΟΣ ΑΥΤΟΝΟΜΟΣ ΚΟΙΝΟΥ ΕΠΕΙΡΟΥ) or "Nomos Autonomos Epeirotikes Symmachias" (ΝΟΜΟΣ ΑΥΤΟΝΟΜΟΣ ΕΠΕΙΡΟΤΙΚΗΣ ΣΥΜΜΑΧΙΑΣ) - meaning Autonomous State of the Epeirote Alliance and Autonomous State of the Epeirote Commonwealth respectively.

    Quote Originally Posted by Centurio Nixalsverdrus View Post
    The Basileus wishes to thank all of you, especially the nobles Tellos Athenaios and Maion Maroneios. Have a Royal Balloon both: for Maion and for Tellos.
    Thank you very much, noble sympatriotes

    Maion
    Last edited by Maion Maroneios; 12-30-2008 at 00:13.
    ~Maion

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    Tuba Son Member Subotan's Avatar
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    Default Re: AW: The Basileus Has Questions

    Sorry for the bump, but I was wondering if you could possibly give me a suggestion for "Lightly Hellenized Satrapy". Also, I'd prefer "Independent Member of the Ambrakian Union/Commonwealth/Alliance/League", as I want to roleplay the idea that they think they are independent, but are clearly anything but, and having "Independent" and "Ambrakian" to reinforce the illusion of independence; having the word EPEIROS in the name of your alliance tends to reinforce the idea of dominance by one certain state =P
    Also, could you possibly tell me how to actually change the names of the governments, as my modding abilities are limited to changing descr_strat, and attempting to add the names "Biggus" and "Dickus" to the Roman name lest, and receiving a CTD in return
    Last edited by Subotan; 12-31-2008 at 14:13.

  22. #22
    Βασιλευς και Αυτοκρατωρ Αρχης Member Centurio Nixalsverdrus's Avatar
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    Default AW: The Basileus Has Questions

    /EB/data/text/descr_buildings.txt. At the bottom are the governments. Search for something like "gov2", gov3" etc for "thrace".

  23. #23
    Tuba Son Member Subotan's Avatar
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    Default Re: AW: The Basileus Has Questions

    Cheers. Here's a balloon, and one for Maion (Or anyone else...), if he gets around to translating the phrases.


  24. #24
    Βασιλευς και Αυτοκρατωρ Αρχης Member Centurio Nixalsverdrus's Avatar
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    Default AW: Re: AW: The Basileus Has Questions

    Thanks for the balloon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Subotan View Post
    "Independent Member of the Ambrakian Union/Commonwealth/Alliance/League"
    Symmetochos Eleutheros Enosis Ambrakias

    ... derived from a newgreek dictionary. I don't speak it. Better wait for Maion.

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