The Basileus Has Questions

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

Hi,

the Basileus is sorry to be a bother, but has questions on the Greek tongue again! Here is what he wants to know:

1. I have modded the Ptolemaic Basilikon Agema to a kind of sword-carrying Thorakitai. What means "Sword-carrying Thorakitai" in Greek? They carry a Kopis. I thought of "Hysteroi Thorakitai", but the original Thorakitai is not obsolete. So Thorakitai Machairaphoroi or Thorakitai Kopi...pheroi, what do you say?

2. I want to reform my government so that the lvl 1 gov would not only represent the Makedonian homeland, but also territories that are thoroughly hellenized, with powerful Hellenic cities and a great part of the populace being Greek. Patris Makedonike kai Nomoi Hellenikoi was something that came to my mind. What would "thorough" be in Greek?

[PershsNhpios]

I am not worthy!

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

Maion? Tellos? Keravnos?

The Basileus has told me that he will reward the worthy noble who can help him with a Royal Balloon!

[navarro951]

Thorakitai Machairaphoroi would be the most correct...and i am positive as ancient Ptolemy swordsmen were Machairaphoroi until the Romans changed it.

[Maion Maroneios]

That's an interesting idea, especially due to the fact that I have done exactly the same (with the Basilikon Agema model as well) What I did was to add them to the roster, edit their AoR and tweak their stats to match those of the Cohortes (sp?) Reformata. The rationale was that the Basileion (later Arche) would adapt to Roman tactics and create their own 'legionary' corps. So I named them Koorteis Makedonikai, or Makedonian Reformed Cohorts.

As for your case now, you could do the same as me, or you could name them Machairophoroi, asd you suggested. Actually, due to the fact that they wield Kopeis (plural), Kopidophoroi would be more correct. So Thorakitai Machairophoroi or Kopidophoroi

Regarding governments now, there are tons of names you could give them. It depends on the style you want to give them. For example, if you follow the Seleukid way of governship, you could name them Satrapeiai Makedonikai Stratiotikai, or Makedonian Military Satrapies. If you want something else, more like the Patris Makedonike but more Panhellenic (like I believe is your case), you should consider something like Patris Hellenike Makedonon (Hellenic Homeland of the Makedonians).

Hope this helped,
Maion

[Tellos Athenaios]

Hi,

the Basileus is sorry to be a bother, but has questions on the Greek tongue again! Here is what he wants to know:

1. I have modded the Ptolemaic Basilikon Agema to a kind of sword-carrying Thorakitai. What means "Sword-carrying Thorakitai" in Greek? They carry a Kopis. I thought of "Hysteroi Thorakitai", but the original Thorakitai is not obsolete. So Thorakitai Machairaphoroi or Thorakitai Kopi...pheroi, what do you say?

There is a perfectly good substitute already available, you only have to look to the East. However, there is actually no need to change a name merely to be less descriptive. So what if the Agema decided to ditch the old junk, they're still the Agema alright?

2. I want to reform my government so that the lvl 1 gov would not only represent the Makedonian homeland, but also territories that are thoroughly hellenized, with powerful Hellenic cities and a great part of the populace being Greek. Patris Makedonike kai Nomoi Hellenikoi was something that came to my mind. What would "thorough" be in Greek?

Hmm, "teleios" (m), "teleia" (f), "teleion" (n).

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

There is a perfectly good substitute already available, you only have to look to the East. However, there is actually no need to change a name merely to be less descriptive. So what if the Agema decided to ditch the old junk, they're still the Agema alright?

But an agema is a guard. I totally revamped them, adapting their stats and AOR to that of Thorakitai, increasing their number to 40, changed their formation and their cost. Basically as Maion said.

That's an interesting idea, especially due to the fact that I have done exactly the same (with the Basilikon Agema model as well) What I did was to add them to the roster, edit their AoR and tweak their stats to match those of the Cohortes (sp?) Reformata. The rationale was that the Basileion (later Arche) would adapt to Roman tactics and create their own 'legionary' corps. So I named them Koorteis Makedonikai, or Makedonian Reformed Cohorts.

As for your case now, you could do the same as me, or you could name them Machairophoroi, asd you suggested. Actually, due to the fact that they wield Kopeis (plural), Kopidophoroi would be more correct. So Thorakitai Machairophoroi or Kopidophoroi

Koortes sounds way to Roman to my ears. I think I go with Kopidopherontes Thorakitai.

Regarding governments now, there are tons of names you could give them. It depends on the style you want to give them. For example, if you follow the Seleukid way of governship, you could name them Satrapeiai Makedonikai Stratiotikai, or Makedonian Military Satrapies. If you want something else, more like the Patris Makedonike but more Panhellenic (like I believe is your case), you should consider something like Patris Hellenike Makedonon (Hellenic Homeland of the Makedonians).

But territories like Syria are not the Homeland of the Makedonians. They are more "thoroughly hellenized territories". Though indeed I am meaning something Panhellenic. The problem is the lvl 1 gov has to encompass both the traditional Makedonian homeland and the hellenized territories.

Hmm, "teleios" (m), "teleia" (f), "teleion" (n).

Patris Makedonike kai Chorai Teleiai Hellenikai. Help!

[Maion Maroneios]

Good to see a fellow Makedon experimenting as well Hope to see some epic future AAR of yours

Maion

[Tellos Athenaios]

For your homeland option I would simply choose the use of ellipsis: "Nomoi Teleioi Makedonon". This uses a slightly different line of approach: from the assumption that your reformed Homelands are under thorough Makedonian control assume that we can speak of "nomoi" (customs, habits, customary law (adat in Indonesian law) -- "that which is in habitual practice, use or possession".

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin...try%3D%2371006

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

Ah.

I see I made a wrong assumption concerning the word "nomos" which I thought was a territory. My bad. I really suck at Greek.

So, what I search for is something like a thoroughly hellenized land or province. Or was your proposal aimed to do without the word for territory? "(Territory of) thoroughly Makedonian law and customs"?

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

So this is my plan: When Megas Antiochos dies his young son Limendas will become King. His treacherous cousins will take their chance to crown themselves kings (one in the west, one in the east) and get support from many greedy nobles in Pella. Limendas will beat them and renovate the Empire as follows:

Gov. 1: Patris Makedonike / Satrapeia Hellenike

The Makedonian homeland and Satrapies that are thoroughly hellenized. These are controlled more directly from Pella. Citizenship is hard to get but therefore offers all advantages of Makedonian and Hellenic civilization. The Satraps do not hold the power they would in a Royal Satrapy and act more like an administrator on behalf of the Makedonian state.

Gov. 2: Satrapeia Basilike

A Royal Satrapy. The King's land where he sets up loyal Makedonian nobles as Satraps. The Satraps are held responsible for their territory. They are appointed and dismissed by the King. Though they act as petty-kings in their territories, they certainly do not hold the power they would in a Seleukid satrapy.

Gov. 3: Satrapeia HemiAutonomos

A semi-autonomous Satrapy like the Seleukid ones. The Satrapy is granted a large degree of inner autonomy but is still an integral part of the Makedonian Empire. Shouldn't it be "Hemiautonome" btw?

Gov. 4: Nomos Symmachos Autonomos

No changes.

[abou]

Thorakitai would be fine by itself, but you could also try Thorakitai Epilektoi. Also, you could go for a twist and try using the participle form: Machairophorontes Thorakitai.

Although, my knowledge of Greek grammar is so small I don't know if you could really take my word for it.

[Maion Maroneios]

Machairopherontes Thorakitai.

Although, my knowledge of Greek grammar is so small I don't know if you could really take my word for it.

Here you go

Maion