Casse cavalry/infantry bodyguards

[Havok.]

Was wondering if it is possible to make casse generals use a cavalry or a infantry bodyguards instead of the chariots?

[Megas Methuselah]

Yeah, it is. I thought of doing it many times myself, but seeing as Casse is always a loner on the island during my campaigns, I never bothered...

[MButcher]

Check out this thread:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...ight=bodyguard

post # 5. Hope this helps.

[Dayve]

I've always changed them to cavalry, historical accuracy be damned... chariots are an absolute pain in the behind.

I've always doubted the historical accuracy behind the ancient British tribes and chariots anyway. Not saying they didn't use them, we know they did, but just because we have 1 or 2 battle records where the top banana sat on them, doesn't really mean they used them in every single battle for centuries and centuries.

Plus, with all the contact the ancient British had with people through the years, and what with the fact that absolutely every single other people on the known earth rrealized the importance of cavalry and used it in some way, even light cavalry, i just can't see the British people the only people on earth (on the EB map) not to use cavalry.

[Watchman]

The Britons were still using chariots when the Romans first dropped by, which was what - late 1st cent BC? Given that the Continental Celts still used them in one of the early recorded battles between them and the Romans, and the vehicle used to be a rather major feature of Celtic and proto-Celtic culture and warfare, I rather daresay it is safe to assume the Britons were still using it as a reasonably important war machine at the beginning of the EB timeframe and quite a while after...

[Dayve]

The chariot was a major part of almost every culture of the time, even the Romans, in parades and races and so on, and like i said, i'm sure the ancient British used them in some battles, we know they did, but every single battle in their history? I can't see it.

And even if they did, they are horribly implemented in RTW's engine. Removing them is the best thing to do, in my opinion.

[Watchman]

Ceremonial chariots are one thing. It's quite another to still use them in battle in large numbers, which we know the Britons *did*. Hell, IIRC charioteers were commonly involved when they mounted hit-and-run raids on Roman foraging parties of all things... if that doesn't suggest they were still in rather general usage, I don't know what does.

[Dayve]

Alright, i don't know anything about the ancient British tribes other than what i've learned from reading unit and building descriptions in EB. So, chariots were as common among the ancient British armies as arrows were among the armies of the ancient steppe peoples, but the fact remains that the RTW engine handles chariots absolutely abysmally, and they're of no use whatsoever.

As i said before, the scares infantry thing is fine, but you don't need it, you are going to win the battle anyway. Provided you have some skirmishers and light cavalry, you could beat an army of marian legions while using lugoe as your line troops while outnumbered 2-1 and still get a heroic victory, because the AI is dumb.

And that's the same reason why you don't need to screw around smashing gaps in your enemies lines for your infantry to exploit. You're going to win, it's pointless.

A unit as important as your general should not be sitting in a chariot. The unit itself is so big that very often the enemy infantry touches the side of your unit of chariots, which then makes the chariots engage in melee and begin riding around like idiots getting knocked down quicker than American soldiers on Omaha beach... you try to make them disengage and the whole unit disperses and runs to different corners of the map, they're just a colossal ****up of a unit, not because of EB, because of the way they are implemented in RTW.

[Watchman]

Provided you have some skirmishers and light cavalry, you could beat an army of marian legions while using lugoe as your line troops while outnumbered 2-1 and still get a heroic victory, because the AI is dumb.

Well, the fragility of the chariot-mounted generals shouldn't be much of an issue then now should it...?

[Dayve]

Well, the fragility of the chariot-mounted generals shouldn't be much of an issue then now should it...?

It is when you're defending a city, when they get killed frequently on the battlefield, look ugly on the battlefield and are a pain in the ass to use.

[Havok.]

It is when you're defending a city, when they get killed frequently on the battlefield, look ugly on the battlefield and are a pain in the ass to use.

Seconded, chariots are just lame in the rtw engine

[||Lz3||]

Try this havok

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[QUOTE=Watchman;1472200]Right, here goes.

1) Backup your original export_descr_unit.txt.

2) Open export_descr_unit.txt.

3) Search for celtic chariot cidainh bodyguards. It should have ";18" above it.

4) Replace the entry with the following:

type             celtic chariot cidainh bodyguards
dictionary       celtic_infantry_rycalawre      ; Rycalawre
category         infantry
class            spearmen
voice_type       General_1
soldier          celtic_infantry_arjos_rycalawre_solduros_kuarothoroi, 30, 0, 1.35
officer          officer_celtic_standardbearer
mount_effect     horse +1, camel +1, elephant -3
attributes       sea_faring, hide_improved_forest, very_hardy, command, general_unit
formation        0.7, 1, 1.8, 2.6, 4, square
stat_health      1, 0
stat_pri         12, 6, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, sword, 0 ,0.225
stat_pri_attr    no
stat_sec         13, 4, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, spear, 0 ,0.13
stat_sec_attr    spear
stat_pri_armour  12, 10, 4, metal
stat_sec_armour  0, 0, flesh
stat_heat        5
stat_ground      0, 0, 0, -1
stat_mental      16, disciplined, highly_trained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay  0
stat_food        60, 300
stat_cost        1, 2720, 0, 80, 130, 2720
ownership        britons, slave

I erased the non standar bearer,perhaps now it will work, remember to change the EDU in sp edu backup folder and EB data folder just in case

[Havok.]

Tried again with that Lz3 but the model thing still appearing =\

[Watchman]

"Model thing" ?

[Rovert]

I always change my Bodyguards to Druids , which would be more historicaly correct anyway.
All you have to do is remove (general unit) from the chariot in (export_decr_unit) and add general unit to the troop u want as your generaL
Make sure the unit you select is the highest with (general_unit) on the list in the export_decr_unit (copy and paste if you have to) or they will spawn as the first general unit on the list in the edu.

If u decide to use Druids they will spawn as druids with no extra changes other than changing the general_unit option.
P.S Make sure to copy the edu after you are done and paste them into sp & mp backup.
cant remember which 1 so just do both.

[Celtic_Punk]

thats not very historical at all.. They'd be more likely to fight alongside the elite warrior caste than to fight alongside druids. (whom really weren't soldiers) Infact I was under the impression it was bad form for a Druid to fight in a battle. and if thats not true then I doubt they showcased in all battles. I also doubt all their generals would have fought on a chariot. I'm sure probably a good many did, but to say 100% that all Briton generals fought on chariots is hogwash. For the sake of the game I'd rather have my Briton's general unit as heavy cavalry than chariots. I can recruit chariots if i need em, I always need cavalry.

So what file do i have to edit so that my general is Brithen or whatever the Gallic general unit is? and which lines?

[Rovert]

Using the Druids as Generals may not be completly Historical but using a foot general gives the lack of cavalry the Casse is suppose to have, so using them for Generals is better than using chariots that suck bad in the game.

[Rovert]

thats not very historical at all.. They'd be more likely to fight alongside the elite warrior caste than to fight alongside druids. (whom really weren't soldiers) Infact I was under the impression it was bad form for a Druid to fight in a battle. and if thats not true then I doubt they showcased in all battles. I also doubt all their generals would have fought on a chariot. I'm sure probably a good many did, but to say 100% that all Briton generals fought on chariots is hogwash. For the sake of the game I'd rather have my Briton's general unit as heavy cavalry than chariots. I can recruit chariots if i need em, I always need cavalry.

So what file do i have to edit so that my general is Brithen or whatever the Gallic general unit is? and which lines?

Extract that to your EB folder , and you have the Auedi/arverni generals for Casse.

[Watchman]

AFAIK druids weren't particularly forbidden from fighting (which would really have been both rather silly and right odd, given the whole "heroic warrior" ideal the Celts had going). Heck, IIRC one of the Gallic kings Caesar fought early on WAS a druid...

Anyway, if you now must switch Casse BGs around use the Rycalawre or similar badass warrior-class types. Much more reasonable than having the boss being hounded by a small army of druids... and if you now just *can't* make do without cavalry generals, the Remi would strike me as the most likely choice (and can maybe be handwaved as mercenaries).

[Rovert]

AFAIK druids weren't particularly forbidden from fighting (which would really have been both rather silly and right odd, given the whole "heroic warrior" ideal the Celts had going). Heck, IIRC one of the Gallic kings Caesar fought early on WAS a druid...

Anyway, if you now must switch Casse BGs around use the Rycalawre or similar badass warrior-class types. Much more reasonable than having the boss being hounded by a small army of druids... and if you now just *can't* make do without cavalry generals, the Remi would strike me as the most likely choice (and can maybe be handwaved as mercenaries).

See more the reason to go with druids
If any tries the Remi, i tried it awile back and ran into some problems , think you need to add some textures. Copy and Paste from 1 of the Gaul factions.

[Watchman]

???? They should be a "merc" unit right ?
...oh. Right. General skin, right ?

[Rovert]

???? They should be a "merc" unit right ?
...oh. Right. General skin, right ?

Problems i had were before the sprite fix i think.
I just looked at the unit and the sprites , should just have to add the general_unit trait. And take it away from the chariots. Then ur guys will spawn as Remi's.

And of course add them for your starting generals in the decr_strat in the Casse section , just copy the top name from the unit in the export_decr_unit and paste over the chariot names in the decr_strat.
Forgot , make sure to copy and paste the export_decr_unit into the sp & mp backups or Noo Worky Worky.

[Watchman]

It's actually better to replace the unit's entire stat block save for the name lines and "general_unit" attribute (and faction ownership plus zero upkeep natch) with the one from the unit you want to use. That way even your starting generals have those BGs and there is, on the whole, far less hassle down the road.
Like when you recruit that unit normally.

[Celtic_Punk]

uuh that link for the casse cavalry generals doesnt work mate...

[Havok.]

Extract that to your EB folder , and you have the Auedi/arverni generals for Casse.

Does't work mate, could you upload it again?

[Moros]

While we could assume that they wouldn't be riding chariots 100% of the time i would be surprised if they'd be heavy cavlry. There barely was heavy cavalry if any at all at our start date in Brittain. I'd go with Calawre myself if not for chariots, Rycalawre would make fine late bodyguards.
Personally however I like the chariots, it's gives your battles and campaigns an extra factor you have to deal with. And chariots are far from always useless. Sometimes the morale attributes for example can really help.

[Havok.]

While we could assume that they wouldn't be riding chariots 100% of the time i would be surprised if they'd be heavy cavlry. There barely was heavy cavalry if any at all at our start date in Brittain. I'd go with Calawre myself if not for chariots, Rycalawre would make fine late bodyguards.
Personally however I like the chariots, it's gives your battles and campaigns an extra factor you have to deal with. And chariots are far from always useless. Sometimes the morale attributes for example can really help.

Well yes indeed, the concept of chariots is very cool, but the problem is the way TW engine handles it, very confusing, very hard to deal with, so i rather remove them after all
=\
Druids bodyguards for the casse FM's should be awesome, nice idea Watchman

[A Very Super Market]

Horribly inaccurate though.

Say, what exactly are your problems with chariots?

[Havok.]

Horribly inaccurate though.

Say, what exactly are your problems with chariots?

I had bad experiences when using them on charges against enemy lines
Other times i clicked on the map in order to better positioning
they spread all the way through the map
it was odd

and we cant use them in cities

rather infantry or cavalry as BG's for casse


you said confusing
about my post up there?

[A Very Super Market]

I think those are problems felt by all cavalry units, but chariots are simply affected more by their large size and spacing.

I didn't say your post was confusing, I only said that not having chariots as Casse bodyguards would be ahistorical.