The Curia

Cotta rises (ooc: this is entirely character wise, Ibn, I have no rl problems with you, just to let you know

We are not cowards, Qvintvs Fabivs Licinvs. Perhaps you have forgotten what it was like to live in constant fear of the giants from the north, but I haven't. My father spent years in the legions, fighting these Celts, among other enemies, and they died the same as any other men; cold steel will be enough to stop these fools. If, of course, they prove too much for you, perhaps it may be safer for you to watch from afar in the comfort of your villa, and let the soldiers do the fighting.

Asina glances around the senate chamber, attempting to predict the moves of other senators, whether they would stand and speak. After a few moments of glancing, Asina rises and speaks

Tribunus Qvintivs may be right about those barbarian celts, they may die as easily, but they fight with more zeal than our soldiers do;

but my reports from the spies near Bononia say that the combined strength of two legions would outnumber the enemy rather comfortably; and our soldiers are more well-trained than theirs; those celts being an undisciplined bunch, fighting with their chests bare and only a shield to protect themselves.

As the dictator has mentioned, we should capture the regions along our northern border and unify Italia, before concentrating somewhere else. It would prove to be a difficult task but our soldiers shall succeed, and after the campaign, we would have 2 legions of hardened veterans to face whatever other adversaries we might encounter.

He sat down, seemingly satisfied by what he said

Quintus stands up..

Are you calling me a coward?? You better watch your tongue, you little boy! I just wanted to say that it's stupid to go against them with only two Legions! Also, I'm not some stupid and arrogant equestrian who can't see further than their own front door! In Sicily we have a chance if properly played out. In north.. well.. we would just let barbarians destroy our Legions!

OOC: I always keep OOC and IC apart.

Asina glared at Quintus momentarily after the latter's outburst; and then mumbled to himself something unintelligible, before standing

One should not be so Choleric, Quintus; you may be right that the lands of Sicilia are richer, however taking over those lands would be seen as a breach on one of our treaties with the Poeni.
however taking over the lands to the north would not be as difficult as those tribes there are barely unified, we could take on the armies of aemilia while the men of Liguria stand at one side, watching their fellow celts being crushed under our caligae.

Cotta stands to answer

Whether or not you respect the man, you wil always respect the rank, Tribune.
I may not have served in the army long, but already I have seen more than your older years could have seen in a life time. Would you have us promote Rome as an untrustworthy beast, who dispenses with treaties once they have served their purpose? We made a pact with the Poeni to defeat a common enemy. Now that this enemy has returned defeated to his homeland, you wish to turn on our one time staunch allies and stab them in the back? This is ludicrous; the Gods curse the day that you are ever given a command.

Cotta sits with slightly redder face than when he had stood

Quintus stands again..

To me a man behind the rank is more important than the rank itself!
And you think that I don't know anything about fighting? I fought against Pyrrhus in the battle of Beneventum! It's just that I don't mention this everytime I speak with someone!
And why do you think that those Carthaginians honor the treaties we made with them and wouldn't try to stab us into back??

A young man entered the room. His body was athletic and strong, his angular face expressed calmness and contentedness and his intelligent eyes radiated dignity. This mans name was Avlvs Aemilivs Mamercvs, son of one of the oldest and most prominent families in Roma, the Gens Aemilia. When he was even younger, he used to celebrate often and was well known for his orgies and affinity to excessive drinking. He still liked the easy life but now, at the age of 22, he decided to appear on the stage of politics to prove he was worthy of wearing the name of the Aemilii. Though he had a wild youth, he was known as a polite and accommodating person, who treated others - even people of lower rank - with kindness.

Now he was Tribunus of Roma. He was thought since childhood to consider himself as a true Roman, so this was a great honour for him. He looked around and lifted his hand.

"Ave senatores! To me it is an honour to be here. Thank you for your invitation."


He did not say more than that, because he wasn't requested to do so and because some of the others argued about something. So he sat down and listened what the other Senators had to say.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I tried to describe him based on his ingame traits. He also will behave here based on those traits, so if I got unfriendly in here, please don't take it personal ;-)

Cotta was about to reply to Quintus' retorts, when the senate doors opened, and young man entered the chamber. "Ave senatores! To me it is an honour to be here. Thank you for your invitation," spoke he. Cotta recognised him as Avlvs Aemilivs Mamercvs, a young figure of the powerful and ancient Aemilii family line. Cotta was about to ignore him and answer to Quintus' remarks, when an idea formed in his mind. Slyly, he smiled, before resuming an honest face, and speaking.

"Greetings, Avlvs Aemilivs Mamercvs. It is a pleasure to meet you at last. I have heard great things about you. We were just...discussing... the next destination of Rome's armies. I'm sure a young Tribune such as yourself would welcome a chance to strike back at old enemies to the north, gaining experience in waging war and command in the Legio II Latium. What say you, senator?

Aemilivs looked at the Senator and smiled back. Almost he laughed out, but he could contain it. He was very pleased to see, that this even younger Roman seemed to be smart as a fox. Aemilivs, a smart fellow himself, always thought the Senate to be a bunch of old and boring men, but this appeard to become far more interesting as he expected.

My friend, thank you very much for your warm and honest welcome. He smiled. I've caught up the last bit of your .... discussion ... and I must say, since I am a young and highly motivated Tribunus, I indeed am keen on making soon the experience of defeating our enemies in battle.

But first you have to explain, why I should make this experience in the coldness of the north, while I could also fight enemies in the warm climate of the south. How strong are our armies? How strong are our enemies? Are we able to replace soldiers fast, if we should fail in the first campaign, or would we be protectless, if we don't succeed at the first try? Are the northern enemies weaker than those in the south? And isn't the south economically more profitable?

Convince me, and I'm your man.

Asina, after much deliberation, stood up

Since Legatus Cotta seems to be in a reverie (OOC: offline), I shall answer this question, though I am not representing him.

To answer your questions:
Our two legions combined outnumber the seperate armies of Aemilia and Liguria each by a comfortable margin; our only main threat are those wildmen known as "gaesatae"; but they are still men and could be felled by a blade in their innards.
Yes, we are able to replace our soldiers relatively fast; troops can be raised immediately from neighbouring provinces and replacements would be stationed there; since it is my job as the new Legion of the Consuls to provide sufficient troops, I shall not fail in that task.
Though the garrison of our southern provinces are slightly weak, it is unlikely that any sizable force would arrive from there.
The northern tribes (of Italia) are stronger than those of Sicilia, but an invasion of Sicilia now would not be a wise move as our allies, the Poeni, consider Sicilia under their sphere of influence; if we intrude, we might face a war and lose a valuable trading partner and leave our ports vulnerable to blockades.

As for a possible invasion of Greece, I don't think that's possible with the current resources we have; and it would incur a lot of expenses as we have to build a fleet, deal with logistics, and reports show that Pyrrhus and his Epirotes have a strong base in Greece

Cotta stands again, after his previous mind wandering (ooc: Cotta actually went to get his hair cut, then had a (edit: lovely, long, hot) shower, so may have appeared 'offline' to his fellow senators).

Thank you Consul. I hope this justifies our reasons, Tribune Aemillivs. As for your seeming reluctance to travel north, I can answer this only through your own desire. We live in a warm climate, it is true, and it does get warmer to the south. But if our soldiers waged war simply according to the levels of warmth during the colder seasons, we would not be powerful at all. Struggles and hardships make a soldier, not warm climates and comfy beds.

Servivs Longvs sits in the corner pondering what has been said throughout the Senate chamber. He quickly makes up his mind and decides to stand. Looking at the senators he says...

"Good senators, Dux Asina and Legatus Cotta are best looking out for the interests of Roma. If we invade to the north, not only will we unite Italy, but our soldiers will gain much more experience fighting the ruthless barbarians in the north. As Legatus Cotta said, "struggles and hardships make a soldier, not warm climates and comfy beds." Plus, can we risk the concequences of what is to come if we break the treaty and invade Sicily? The world will no longer look upon Roma as the honorable nation we are, but will put us on a level comparable to those naked barbarians in the north. Senators, listen to these wise men and vote to move our armies north to defeat the barbarians.

Servivs sits, waiting for the replies from his fellow senators.

Boldly, Cotta stands again.

Senators, it seems support against the strike north is waning. I can no longer see any valued argument against it, and indeed the Consul and the Dictator have spoken in favour of it. I believe any continued aggression to this edict may be seen as a personal attack or the sake of argument; not something we promote within this chamber. Therefore I propose that this matter may now be moved aside until the voting, and we can concentrate on other matters of state; other edicts.

Ave Senators.

I am Titus Valerius Maximus of the proud family Valeria. I have recently been entered into the Senate as a Partician. Anyway down to buisness.

My clerk has recently enlightened me on the past talking of the Senate so I will begin with my thoughts. I have no pity for pety alliances with Carthage or any other Africans for that matter. Though Sicily is going to be one of the biggest trade centres of the Western Mediterranian in a few years, I believe it to risky. We have two proper Legions at the moment and Sicily is a big island. Greeks, mercanarys and African Nobles defend near all towns.

Our north however is fragile, and likely to collapse without further funding or reinforcements. Do you want Gauls to invade or a bunch of geese to get us out of bed in the nick of time? Bononia is ripe for the taking. The Arveni are in constant conflict with Audie and Patavium would also be ill-defended, in which time Mediolanum will also suffer the same fate. The Ligurians will defy us to the last, and we should seek peace with them for now, their stronghold of Segesta will have to wait.

After that I belive we should build up our infastructure including our navy. We commands postitions and the like before we can challenge Carthage. Their many fleets can easily support their island holdings.

Titus nods to the Senators to thank them for listening.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Sorry I replace all the V's with U's just for practicality.

Servivs stands

I second Cotta's motion to move to other topics.

Servivs sits

Fellow Senators, I have been informed that the two Greek colonies recently captured by the Republic are being governed as Provincia Romanae rather than as Adminstratio Regionum Italicara as has always been done in the past. While I have no quarrel with that decision since it will allow us wider recruitment, the issue of how we plan on governing the northern provinces we take does need to be addressed. On the one hand we can fully incorporate them into our Republic and gain their full loyalty and manpower and on the other we can take the quicker and cheaper route of setting up a puppet ruler and gain access to mercenaries and economic benefits or perhaps something in between? Perhaps one of the Consuls or older Senators would like to put forth a proposal?

Cotta stands, a quizzical smile upon his face

What exactly are you suggesting here, I wonder. Are you perhaps looking to take command of one of these provinces for yourself? May I remind you a Provincial Dictatorship is a heavy burden and not one given out lightly to lesser men.

You misunderstand me Legatus Cotta. I am simply suggesting we formalize the degree to which we plan to Romanize the peoples to the north of our borders after we pacify them.

(OOC: i.e. Whether we plan to use Type I, Type II, or Type III government in the northern provinces when we capture them.)

And I am wandering your intentions behind such a question, Senator.

And I'm not sure I like the implications of that statement. I am a man of the Republic and my only concern in bringing up this issue is her well-being, nothing more. This is an issue of citizenship, should the peoples north of our borders be brought up to the level of us in central Italia immediately or not.

I think we should gradually intercrate them into our Republic. The people will Romanise over time, as it should be. Senator Cotta, I don't think he has any intent behind his question. He is wondering what type of government we should place in the Northern provinces if the Republic does conquer them.

Also when this session ends I would like to join an army. Are any of the legions looking for a young Tribunus?

Qvintvs Fabivs Licinvs, I admire your fire. I do.

But as we sit here an speak of having but two legions to conquer these so-called Barbarian 'warlords', do we insist on kidding our selves that the same army would be better off crossing an entire sea to a foreign land and fighting trained Greek armies led by competent generals?

To the south, we are protected by a large body of water-- a natural stone wall if you will. Yet we are shielded from the Cisalpine Celts by the Rubicon... a mere river! These tribes have been fighting amongst each other for years. If we march north, it will be equivalent to a large pile of leaves trying to defeat a stiff autumn wind.

It would comfort me to have more men in our great legions, but it would be made all the easier with the acquisition of just one province to the north.

I hereby support Edict 2.2

The Dictator has heard much debate and stands...

"Good Senators, this bickering is unnecessary. I have issued no such orders to invade Sicilia, or anywhere near the Greek nations and nor shall I. Our first military order of business will be to secure the whole of Italia itself. You men speak of conquering yet we have not even constituted the the whole of our own peninsula.

Legio I Apulia:Under Consul Asina, they will march in force and conquer the independent settlement of Segesta when I give the order.

Legio II Latium: When Legatus Cotta's legion is ready, they will claim the independent village of Bononia.

These are my orders.

"Caivs Avrelivs Cotta, my friend, do not question the intentions of Caivs Aemilivs Mamercvs or any other member of the Gens Aemilia, as one of the gentes maiores, concerning the welfare of our beloved Roma. Our family only wanted - and still does want - the best for Roma for centuries, LONG before the Gens Avrelia appeared. And please don't take my words concerning the climate in the south literally. Don't let my rhetorical ornamentation mislead you to think an Aemilivs to be a pansy. History proves the contrary.

I just asked for reasons, since I did not hear the whole conversation. And you all showed me good reasons to go north."

Quintus speaks ..

Well, if you want to go against those northern barbarians with your toy soldiers then fine. Go, do it. But don't come back here whining when those unwashed naked drunkards beat your legions apart!

But there is another thing I must ask.. We are at war but taxes in most of our cities are not as high as they could. Why is that? We can raise taxes 'Very High' in most of our cities except Rhegion. So, why don't we do that? We need Legions and Legions need money. It's that simple!

Quintus takes his seat..

Good Qvintus,

I will already be ordering the raising of taxes.

Good dictator, I'm afraid that subjugating the armies of Segesta and Bononia would not be possible with one legion each, I suggest that we should send both legions against one target at once, as the garrison armies of those two cities are both rather large; however against the combined strength of both legions, we would outnumber them rather comfortably

and regarding the taxes, I shall also increase taxes nationwide, we should expect to see more denarii in our coffers soon, and also more troops marching in cities and countrysides

Cotta stands to reply to Asina

Consul, we should not be afraid to possibly fall back should our initial attacks fail. If we fail to defeat the Celts in one battle, we can inflict heavy casualties on them before falling back and attacking again

I'm not saying that I am afraid of defeat, it's that attacking each settlement with a force minute compared to the settlement's garrison is unwise.

Originally Posted by Baen

Cotta stands to reply to Asina

Consul, we should not be afraid to possibly fall back should our initial attacks fail. If we fail to defeat the Celts in one battle, we can inflict heavy casualties on them before falling back and attacking again

A philosopher once said if you outnumber the enemy army 2:1, split your army into two. If you are equal in size, you may fight them. However I am not sure if this would be the case. And what of the possibility of an ambush that would cripple our efforts? I know I am no military strategist, but I would have both legions travel to the first province, capture it, retrain, and then send off one of them to capture the other province.