The Curia

[Potocello]

Servivs Longvs stands to address the senators. He pauses, and prepares himself for what he is about to say.

"Noble dictator, please excuse my Tribvnvs he is a good man and means well. But perhaps a march north would not be best for the Legio III Campania. The Legio III Campania is not pleased with the idea of going north and we feel that the means do not justify the ends and continued conquest north would not be in Roma's favor. We have lost too much in the northern campaign, we do not want more Roman blood spilled at the hands of those naked barbarians. And for what? The lands in the north are hard, tough, cold, and the natives will do anything to keep us out.

This is why I propose, with the support of the Legio III Campania, that instead of sending us north, send us east to besiege and take Sparte. There, we will crush the weak and divided Greeks and establish shipping routes from the provinces that favor Roma. In Greece we shall find fertile soil as well as profitable shipping routes which expand all throughout the Mediterranean. By taking Greece we would tap into the wealth and culture of the east.

Consider the benefits of this, senators, provinces in Greece would be very profitable for Roma. Send me with the Legio III Campania to Greece."

Servivs sits down waiting for the debate to commence.

[Mooks]

*Scipio sees Mercellus, and concluded that he needs to be less hostile. No need to get everyone against him. He listens intently to Servus, and decides to support it, for nothing bad can come of it and only good can be reaped*

*Scipio stands up*


I second this proposal. Though not out of cowardice. The Gauls are mighty foes, and worthy enemies on the battlefield. I will personally congratulate any of the senators here if they go to fight with such a foe, and will vote yes on a triumph if they are victorious.

The greeks in the east are divided, and weakend. Not only that, but they are openly hostile to our merchants. Our ships are booted out of their harbors only because trade between them and the rest of the easterners are deemed more important.

I reccomend changes to my commander's proposal. We setup friendler goverments in their cities. People willing to trade and communicate with Rome, people who will be our eyes and ears in places away from Rome. Let them govern themselves, but with Rome's friendly shield protecting them, and them giving us tribute.

(OOC client kings).

*Deciumus Cornelius Scipio takes his seat. The senate is silent, whether about to agree or shout down the proposal; Scipio does not know*

[Potocello]

*Scipio stands up*


I second this proposal. Though not out of cowardice. The Gauls are mighty foes, and worthy enemies on the battlefield. I will personally congratulate any of the senators here if they go to fight with such a foe, and will vote yes on a triumph if they are victorious.

The greeks in the east are divided, and weakend. Not only that, but they are openly hostile to our merchants. Our ships are booted out of their harbors only because trade between them and the rest of the easterners are deemed more important.

I reccomend changes to my commander's proposal. We setup friendler goverments in their cities. People willing to trade and communicate with Rome, people who will be our eyes and ears in places away from Rome. Let them govern themselves, but with Rome's friendly shield protecting them, and them giving us tribute.

(OOC client kings).

*Deciumus Cornelius Scipio takes his seat. The senate is silent, whether about to agree or shout down the proposal; Scipio does not know*

"Your changes are appropriate, Scipio, let them be added to the proposal.

Let it be known that i too do not want to go to Greece out of cowardice. I have fought in the north under Asina and i know the challenges each Roman faces when fighting in the north and i respect any that does. I just think that lives are being wasted with continuous conquest in the north while Greece remains open. I beseech you senators, send the Legio III to Greece.

[navarro951]

Blasio remains seated, with a puzzled, but interested look on his face...

"Your plan is sound, and I carry no grudge against your Tribune let us pass that. But I think invading Greece is a near impossibility. We have just sent diplomats on a two year voyage all the way to Asia minor. We haven't the money for a navy to get our troops their. And besides the Hellons were all kind to us, Makedonia, the Koinon Hellenon, the Selecuids, and the small kingdom of Pontos all granted us trade rights and their map information of the world. It seems all that would be a waste if we just march our legions through new found friends.

Only Phyrros, who is my standing rival in this world, would I consider to attack. My mentor and father figure, our great Dictator Dentatvs, pushed the idea of peace with the Epirotes and focus on economic prosperity here in Roma. But, while I don't disagree with filling our coffers, I only spoke for Dentatvs but do not feel the same. I will listen to the debate on this topic, an emergency council may be needed, but I stand firm and will only cast my vote towards re-inviting the bloodshed of vile Epirote soldiers."

Remaining seated, Blasio opens the floor for discussion and nods toward Legatus Longvs.

[Mooks]

*Senator Scipio rises, obviosly knowing what the dictator was going to say. Perhaps he already knows what most people are going to say and has planned responses for them?*

Invading Greece is not a near impossibility. We shall 'borrow' what transports we need from our merchant class. Of course we will compensate them for it, but they should be happy about it! We are expanding their profits 10 fold, for the markets of Greece are more numerous then Italia.

The easterners gave us trade rights like they would infants candy. Us romans are not a seafaring culture, and they know that. There is barely any room in their harbors for the ships we do have! They get their olive oil and wine from other places.

Please senators, realize this opportunity! The Greeks and Macedonians are now as we speak engaged in a fierce war. The Hellens army will be experianced, but depleted. Legio 3 has complete confidence in itself for quick and decisive victorys. If you send the legio III to Greece, our coffers will refill, the slave markets will refill, our ships will travel farther then they have ever gone before. How long have we gone without a scraping the bottom of the barrel that is the treasury? How long have we went without greeks to tutor and educate our young sons of Rome? Too long I say.

*Scipio sets down abruptly.*

(OOC me and marcellus posted at the same time. Hate when that happens)

[navarro951]

"Your telling me, and senators I would never doubt the might of a Roman legion, but you are telling me that the new Legio III which has not yet been tested in battle could easily, as you've put it, smash against the military strength and tactical genius that is the Spartan hoplite?"

[Mooks]

"Your telling me, and senators I would never doubt the might of a Roman legion, but you are telling me that the new Legio III which has not yet been tested in battle could easily, as you've put it, smash against the military strength and tactical genius that is the Spartan hoplite?"

I admire the spartan hoplites. But its been decades, maybe even centurys before they were ever in sufficent numbers to actually be a winning force. Makedonia and Greece have been in a war for decades now, the polis in the south of greece will be lightly defended.

If Rome decides to lead another legio against the Epirotes, I will not agree or disagree. Its a sound plan, and the Dalmation pirates are really bad this time of year.

[Potocello]

"Your telling me, and senators I would never doubt the might of a Roman legion, but you are telling me that the new Legio III which has not yet been tested in battle could easily, as you've put it, smash against the military strength and tactical genius that is the Spartan hoplite?"

"As Scipio has said, the Spartans have not truly been a formidable force for quite some time, the same
can be said for Greece as a whole. They stand a shattered nation of another time.

As you all know, i have fought the vicious barbarians in the north. It can be said that their ferocity can
rival that of the Spartan hoplite. I am confident that Marcellus' loyalty and wisdom and Scipio's fiery
passion will translate well to the battlefield. I am confident that we can lead the Legio III Campania to
victory against the Spartans. It is true, Roman might may be tested in the battle against the Spartans
but it is a battle we cannot lose.

Senators, the wealth of Greece is bleeding from their disunited land. Let us stop the bleeding with
Roman influence. Let us sail to Greece."

[Tiberius Claudius Marcellus]

Tiberius Claudius Marcellus stands again with an arm extended out towards Scipio.

"Honored members of the Senate, my fellow Tribunus and senator speaks the truth. Hellas is divided and ripe for conquest. Noble Dictator Blasio, your anymosity towards the Molossian is well-placed. As an ammendment to this proposal, I suggest that to deal with the Epirote menace, we allow one of the Legions in the north to harass and possibly even take the region of Dalmatia to draw Pyrrhus' attention off of our subversion in the south. There will not be many large battles to be fought against the Koinon Hellenon or the Makedonians. They are concerned with their own individual agendas rather than unite against us. This plan cannot fail.

"I have trained many years with a former commander of the armies of Taras. He is my aide de camp and an honest and capable man, true. I assure you that our legions are more mobile than any hoplite or even a phalanx, and the best way to annihilate them is to flank and surround them. Again I state that we will not fail."

[navarro951]

"I am a man of the senators , of the republic, if this topic truly suits some of us,and others are against it, it may be time for an emergency council. Give me a bit of time to make this decision."

[Mjolnir]

Senator Caivs stands, fury in his eyes.

What madness is this? Even after their plans to attack our allies in the south have been voted down, some members of this Senate insist upon proposing yet another folly. There are edicts passed by this Senate that are yet undone, but you begin push "daring" new plans before the ink is even dry.

The Celts and Gauls may not be united, but they are numerous. There are three major settlements yet to be taken by our legions in Cisalpine Gaul, something that makes the use of Legio III in the north a necessity. It is not cowardice, but prudence to say this and it is arrogance to say otherwise. We are Romans, YES, but not gods. As I have said before, the north is large, sending three legions there will cause no great difficulty for food stores, especially if we send Legio III to Massalia Caivs' voice rises and hardens as this Senate ordered be taken. There is business for us in the north, business that the Senate felt was more important than ill-conceived forays in the south or east.

And yet you would have us sail across the sea in boats we don't have and can't afford, to a land filled with the battle hardened sons of Megos Alexandros, and take the legendary city of Sparta with a legion of green untested soldiers. And then what? What will we do then surrounded by Greek armies and cut off from reinforcements and supplies in a land turned against us by our unprovoked hostility. Sirs your plan is madness without any help from my tongue. And this is without even mentioning the loss of trade and friendship our diplomats have just secured for us. Should that be tossed aside so lightly?

And finally, for those of you who spent too much time with your Greek tutors growing up, there are plenty of boy-lovers in the Greek colony of Massalia with which for you to make friends.

Senator Caivs Aemilia casts a meaningful glance at Senator Tiberius a small mocking smile playing at his lips.

I say that this proposal is self-apparent foolishness, let us discard it as such and speak no more of an attack on Hellas at present.

Senator Caivs resumes his seat

[Potocello]

"Senator Caivs, plans to attack Carthage were foolish because they are united. They have the
wealth, the power, and the territory to defeat us while the Hellen do not. We would take Sparte
leaving the Koinon Hellenon with only two territories. From there, we could build our forces, retrain
and prepare to take Korinthos if we desire to. Makedonia is strong but will be to preoccupied with
fighting Epeiros and the remaining Koinon Hellenon that they will not be able to route us from Greece.

And how dare you insult senator Tiberius. His education has turned him into one of the best men i
have ever known."

Servivs stands there, furious at Caivs for the insult

OOC: ah i hate responding after someone has said something new while i was writing

[Mooks]

Senator Caivs stands, fury in his eyes.

What madness is this? Even after their plans to attack our allies in the south have been voted down, some members of this Senate insist upon proposing yet another folly. There are edicts passed by this Senate that are yet undone, but you begin push "daring" new plans before the ink is even dry.

The Celts and Gauls may not be united, but they are numerous. There are three major settlements yet to be taken by our legions in Cisalpine Gaul, something that makes the use of Legio III in the north a necessity. It is not cowardice, but prudence to say this and it is arrogance to say otherwise. We are Romans, YES, but not gods. As I have said before, the north is large, sending three legions there will cause no great difficulty for food stores, especially if we send Legio III to Massalia Caivs' voice rises and hardens as this Senate ordered be taken. There is business for us in the north, business that the Senate felt was more important than ill-conceived forays in the south or east.

And yet you would have us sail across the sea in boats we don't have and can't afford, to a land filled with the battle hardened sons of Megos Alexandros, and take the legendary city of Sparta with a legion of green untested soldiers. And then what? What will we do then surrounded by Greek armies and cut off from reinforcements and supplies in a land turned against us by our unprovoked hostility. Sirs your plan is madness without any help from my tongue. And this is without even mentioning the loss of trade and friendship our diplomats have just secured for us. Should that be tossed aside so lightly?

And finally, for those of you who spent too much time with your Greek tutors growing up, there are plenty of boy-lovers in the Greek colony of Massalia with which for you to make friends.

Senator Caivs Aemilia casts a meaningful glance at Senator Tiberius a small mocking smile playing at his lips.

I say that this proposal is self-apparent foolishness, let us discard it as such and speak no more of an attack on Hellas at present.

Senator Caivs resumes his seat

*Scipio rises calmly. Emphasizes his cool head and calmness. Next to Aemilia's fury he might appear more intelligent and coolheaded then he actually is*

Thats quite a arguement there but I respect it, and debate it one by one in order.he

The 3 settlements yet to be taken can be taken by Legio 1 and 2. The glory is all theirs. If needed, legio 3 can stay behind until they can be taken. I shouldve made this more clear. Pardon that.

The edict just failed for the attack on Carthrage, yet it wasnt because they were our allies. Dont let that fool you, it was because the north isnt taken yet, and that was in the past. The north gets closer and closer to being taken. Its also because we didnt have a extra legion on hand.

The land of Greece is not the land it was when Socrates, Homor, Pelicles, or when Thermoplye happened. The land is just as rich as it was back then, but its soldiers are mercenarys in the far east, its military traditions have been outdated, and the war with Makedonia have depleted the armies it does have.

And the question not what would we do when encountered by a superior force, but what would they do.

*Scipio takes his seat. A fellow senator behind him sais to him "Did you see his Aemilia's face?*

(OOC I know what you mean ;)

[Tiberius Claudius Marcellus]

Tiberius could not believe his ears, it was all happening so fast. Tiny beads of sweat broke out at his hairline and he downed a cup of water while he gathered his bearings. Now the Legatus had shown his hand along with Tribunus Scipio. Two senators, though commanders of a Legion, would not be enough to convince the Dicator and the other members of the Curia that Greece should be the new jewel that Roma set its eyes toward. This would require rhetoric and solidarity of an unparalleled level. They were confident that there were two more senatores who would side with them on this issue; but there would certainly be opposition, mainly from those in command of Legio I and II. Tiberius could only hope that the plans laid out during the discussion he had had at dinner with Scipio were in place.

He stood up, cleared his throat and began,

"Senatores, it is with great respect and humility that I address this legislative body as not only a seasoned senator, but also as a Tribunus and Second in Command of the Legio III Campania. As you well know, though a member of the Gens Claudia my family hails from Tarentum for the past three generations. While Latin, we have great ties to the Hellenes in culture, language, and many other ways of life. Allow me the honor of addressing the advantages of sending the Legio III Campania into Hellas in stead of journeying to the north.

"First and foremost, the Res Publica has two separate Legions already campaigning in that territory. While there is yet work to be done, the peoples of that land have not proven to be united enough to be a threat to us in recent times. Other than garrison duty or defense against an unprecedented well-coordinated invasion from a combined force of both Gallic tribes and possibly even their northern Germanic neighbors, there is nothing that would require a third Legio to be sent to the north. It is highly dubious that the uncultivated lands could even support several extra thousands of fighting men for any sustained period of time without depriving the citizens and the local inhabitants of the towns that we seek to bring into our fold. Surely that would not make them feel amicably towards us, their new masters?

"Additionally, allow me to speak of the pro-Romani attitudes of many of the Hellenes on the Occidental coast of Hellas. Having been raised in a Hellenic town until my family - well-connected merchants, mind you - aided the spy sent into Tarentum by the Senate several years ago, I am very well versed and still up-to-date in on these matters. Romani culture, goods, religion, and law are all exported to the Greek isles with each ship that reaches their ports, and I attest that those are in an ever-increasing demand. While our forces would undoubtedly be forced to fight some battles, there are many amongst the countryside who would aide us in our fight. Verily, once the local population centers are captured, it would take little coersion to supplant the Hellenic government with one that was decidedly pro-Roman.

"With these friendly governments joining our ranks, the more stubborn of the cities would be weakened considerably while our own coffers and legions were strengthened. The fertile lands of Hellas also provide us the benefit of being rather close together in the mountainous terrain. Once a city was captured, it would be less than a season's march to lay seige to the walls of the next. This geography would speed our total control of the region, which, once properly subjugated, would enrich the Res Publica tenfold. We would then have enough denarii and able-bodied men to take on Carthago full-on, as well as advance into Gaul, and have forces ready to defend against any incursions from Aegyptus who have their eyes set upon the Greek jewel as well."

Tiberius takes a moment to down another cup of water and continues,

"Senatores, the lands to the north of Italia are exceedingly vast, frozen wastelands inhabited by viscious savages and unpenetratable forests. Even if all three armies were sent north they would become separated and subject to ambush from any amount of roaming savages. Our men would most assuredly suffer unnecessary casualties from exposure during the long, harsh, and unforgiving winters as our supply lines would undoubtedly be constantly harassed and intercepted by the enemy. Is that the fate you would send the sons of the Res Publica to? I should hope not. There will be a time when the whole of Europa will fall under the rule of the Senate; but men of Roma, this is not yet that time.

"I thank you for your attention and implore you once more, let Legio I and II finish pacifying the lands south of the Alps and consolidate their holdings. They have bled much and are in much need of a well-deserved rest. Let them begin to raise families in these new territories and Romanize them. Legio III Campania is more than capable and ready and willing to head to Greece, with the permission of the Senate, of course, and bring greater glory, wealth, slaves, and fighting men into our armament!"