Quote Originally Posted by tibilicus View Post
I know enough about the Vatican and it's passed to know that it is a corrupt organization. Even going back to issues such as indulgences in the 15th and 16th century this is evident to seem. Again this isn't saying all Catholics are corrupt but the main institution IMO could be a hell of a lot more spiritual and more in touch with God instead of the other act it engages in. The amount of wealth not just the Catholic church but other churches demand is staggering. Religion is a multi billion doller business and if you believe the Pope and co really care about our salvation over there bank balance then that I'm afraid is wrong.
I've heard this arguement before, and it always baffles me, be it the Church, a political party etc. the same fallacy keeps coming up. So the Catholic Church was corrupt in the 15th Century, the current Pope was not involved in any of that. Converesly, he was involved in the clampdown on deviant clergy.

As to the money issue:

The Catholic Church has massive outgoings, how much do you think it takes to keep St Peter's in Rome open for a day? I can tell you that the much smaller St Peter's in my own city costs £15,000 a day to keep open, and that doesn't take account of the structural work which there simply isn't money for right now. I'm not a Catholic at all, I don't agree with Papal Supremacy, or disbarring women from Holy Orders, to name only two issues I have with the Roman Church, but to suggest that the Pope is more concerned with his bank balance than anything else is absurd. If he was he would not make statements which caused some people to turn away from Rome, and he'd tithe.

I'm not aware of the Catholic Church demmanding people's money, weddings and funerals cost, granted, but it costs to have that done anywhere. If you are comparing Roman Church to the Megachurches in the Bible belt they frankly couldn't be further apart.

Also as a Christian I would like to ask you which sins have I committed? Not believing in something with no fallible evidence? Does your teachings also suggest that if a murderer repents his sins he's free to go to heaven but as long as i'm a good man but refuse to accept something that has no solid backing I will rot in hell?

It would appear God doesn't just work in mysterious way but incredibly illogic ones..
Well lets begin with you: What sins have you not committed? I was asked this recently and my interlocutor was able to peg me for fornication (illicit) because that's a mental as much as physical thing, theft, and false witness. He could have added taking thew Lord's name in vain and not honouring my father and my mother for starters. I've probably breached every commandement at some point except murder.

So, can you say you have never done anything wrong? I doubt it, and the tiniest imperfection disqualifies you from a place in heaven.

The murderer would be forgiven so long as he truely repents. That means he does it out of genuine contrition, not to save his soul, and he aceepts his guilt. How do you suppose a truely penitant murderer feals about himself? He has to accept his sins, and then be willing to ask for forgiveness, and to abandon all claim over his own soul.

By contrast, you demand forgiveness based on your own merit without actually being willing to ask for it. You don't even believe in the being that can absolve you.

You don't actually want forgiveness or absolution.