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Thread: Left Handed Units?

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    Member Member Ozzman1O1's Avatar
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    Default Left Handed Units?

    I know this isnt a very important topic,but isnt it unrealistic in past tw games when EVERYONE is holding their sheild in the same hand,will we see the same thing with muskets?It wont at all affect the game but i was just wondering....(look at all the right handed smiles
    :

  2. #2
    The Laughing Knight Member Sir Beane's Avatar
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    Default Re: Left Handed Units?

    Given how all of the units are the same height and have exactly the same face?

    Not a chance I'm afraid. Seems a shame, but CA probably have higher priorities than unit variation what with the new fancy engine. Maybe look out for more variation on the 'Evolution' phase of their development cycle, which I assume is the next game coming to us from CA Australia.


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  3. #3

    Default Re: Left Handed Units?

    Well, I don't think they even made separate patterns for left and right hand shoes in the Eighteenth century, let alone cater for subversive individualty in the ranks such as left handed soldiery.

    Muskets were mass produced on production lines to a pattern with the firing lock on the right. You'd have to shoot 'right handed' with the stock in your right shoulder, to avoid burning your face off from the pan flash. You would load and shoot the piece the way you were drilled to, exactly the same as everybody else, and I doubt the RSM would be too sympathetic to suggestions it was awkward or uncomfortable

    And consider being in the front rank of a 3 deep firing line where some of the rear rankers might be firing left handed, or not

    Actually this is one military era where I'd like to see more uniformity and less individuality in the models. I don't want to see several colours for the breeches or different arrangements of equipment belts etc. At least not for the formal European wars. I could even cope with identical white wigs and standardised moustaches for the Grenadier units. Of all the periods TW has covered, the 18C would suit battalions of Clones without detracting from the look of the thing. But then again I'm just an old miniatures gamer...

  4. #4
    Senior Member Senior Member Fisherking's Avatar
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    Default Re: Left Handed Units?

    So we won‘t find it in this game but….

    Left-handedness and intelligence
    In his book Right-Hand, Left-Hand, Chris McManus of University College London argues that the proportion of left-handers is rising and left-handed people as a group have historically produced an above-average quota of high achievers. He says that left-handers' brains are structured differently in a way that widens their range of abilities, and the genes that determine left-handedness also govern development of the language centers of the brain.
    McManus also says that the increase in the 20th century of people identifying as left-handed could produce a corresponding intellectual advance and a leap in the number of mathematical, sporting, or artistic geniuses.
    In 2006, researchers at Lafayette College and Johns Hopkins University in a study found that left-handed men are 15 percent richer than right-handed men for those who attended college, and 26 percent richer if they graduated. The wage difference is still unexplainable and does not appear to apply to women


    However
    Left-handers suffered severe prejudice during the 18th and 19th centuries and it was often "beaten out" of people

    A few famous lefties:
    Alexander the Great
    Charlemagne, Holy Roman emperor
    Julius Caesar, Roman general
    Napoléon Bonaparte (?), French emperor
    King Louis XVI of France
    King George II of England


    Take that you right handed conformists!


    Education: that which reveals to the wise,
    and conceals from the stupid,
    the vast limits of their knowledge.
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    The Dam Dog Senior Member Sheogorath's Avatar
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    Default Re: Left Handed Units?

    Even if a person was left handed, he would probably be required to hold his musket in a right-handed fashion. Uniformity was big in this era.

    Although I think I saw somewhere that one country had a 'left-handed' regiment. Prussia, maybe. Crazy Germans always go for the gimmick units ;)
    Tallyho lads, rape the houses and burn the women! Leave not a single potted plant alive! Full speed ahead and damn the cheesemongers!

  6. #6

    Default Re: Left Handed Units?

    Yes armies in the 18th century were not exactly accomodating to us lefties.
    Last edited by Jack Lusted; 12-24-2008 at 00:46.
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    Disclaimer: Any views or opinions expressed here are those of the poster and do not necessarily represent the views or opinions of The Creative Assembly or SEGA.

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    Member Member General SupaCrunk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Left Handed Units?

    Im left handed!



  8. #8

    Default Re: Left Handed Units?

    So am I

  9. #9

    Default Re: Left Handed Units?

    Well this this era there really aren't muskets desined for lefties. Nor during the Roman time period were there soldiers in a legion that could have their shield in their right hand. There is no way for a good testuto formation or a phalanx with left handers.

    Oh and there are probably more lefties now then back then because now if you are left handed you are not persecuted.


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    Member Member fenir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Left Handed Units?

    I use both, My right generally for signing, and my left for writing.

    That makes me twice as good than you all...........


    Seriously though, always treat all surveys with distain. Until you can see how they constructed them, and how they qauntified them.

    And not all left handers where persectued, some yes, but certainly not in general. Otherwise you wouldn't have the names you have above.

    List of famous right handers............

    too many.


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    fenir
    Last edited by fenir; 12-24-2008 at 04:56.
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    Spirit King Senior Member seireikhaan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Left Handed Units?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisherking View Post
    A few famous lefties:
    Alexander the Great
    Charlemagne, Holy Roman emperor
    Julius Caesar, Roman general
    Napoléon Bonaparte (?), French emperor
    King Louis XVI of France
    King George II of England


    Take that you right handed conformists!
    You forgot perhaps one of history's most brilliant men, Leo De Vinci.
    It is better to conquer yourself than to win a thousand battles. Then, the victory is yours. It cannot be taken from you, not by angels or by demons, heaven or hell.

  12. #12
    Senior Member Senior Member Fisherking's Avatar
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    Default Re: Left Handed Units?

    Quote Originally Posted by seireikhaan View Post
    You forgot perhaps one of history's most brilliant men, Leo De Vinci.
    I didn’t try to make it a comprehensive list. Just a few that almost everyone would know. I left out Queen Victoria too, and Jack the Ripper.

    Clinton & Bush 1 were there too.


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    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Left Handed Units?

    The less lefties there are the more I feel special commanding them around with my left hand.


    "Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu

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    Senior Member Senior Member Fisherking's Avatar
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    Default Re: Left Handed Units?

    Long, long ago when books were bought in shops and there was no net, I read a piece that said that the Romans, being the sly foxes they were, had left-handed cohorts for their flanks.

    In combat all of those right handed men drifted to the right. The cohort on the right stopped this from happening and the one on the left could more easily turn the flank of the enemy.

    I don’t know that this was a common practice, it was just written.


    Education: that which reveals to the wise,
    and conceals from the stupid,
    the vast limits of their knowledge.
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  15. #15

    Default Re: Left Handed Units?

    I doubt they'd have a lefty unit (to be honest, being a lefty myself, I'd spam that unit! :P), especially considering how much of a stigma it's presented throughout history. Note how 'right' is also synonymous for 'correct'. This is true in most languages even now.

    In any case, CA are unlikely to go to that much trouble. But it would be cool.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Left Handed Units?

    I would give my right arm to be a lefty.
    I support Israel

  17. #17
    Member Member PBI's Avatar
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    Default Re: Left Handed Units?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisherking View Post
    Long, long ago when books were bought in shops and there was no net, I read a piece that said that the Romans, being the sly foxes they were, had left-handed cohorts for their flanks.

    In combat all of those right handed men drifted to the right. The cohort on the right stopped this from happening and the one on the left could more easily turn the flank of the enemy.

    I don’t know that this was a common practice, it was just written.
    I always wondered about this; why didn't the Greeks, aware that the right flank of a phalanx would be weaker due to the shields being on the wrong side, simply form a unit of left-handed spearmen to hold the right flank?

    Similarly, in medieval castles, spiral staircases were designed to favour the defenders in a swordfight, since a right-handed swordsman climbing the stairs would have his swing blocked by the the central column; why didn't an attacking army form a special unit of left-handed swordsmen just for taking stairwells?

    I suppose it might not have made an enormous difference, and I suppose by the time soldiers were fighting on staircases the siege was probably nearly over anyway, but it always bugged me.

  18. #18
    The Laughing Knight Member Sir Beane's Avatar
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    Default Re: Left Handed Units?

    Quote Originally Posted by PBI View Post
    I always wondered about this; why didn't the Greeks, aware that the right flank of a phalanx would be weaker due to the shields being on the wrong side, simply form a unit of left-handed spearmen to hold the right flank?

    Similarly, in medieval castles, spiral staircases were designed to favour the defenders in a swordfight, since a right-handed swordsman climbing the stairs would have his swing blocked by the the central column; why didn't an attacking army form a special unit of left-handed swordsmen just for taking stairwells?

    I suppose it might not have made an enormous difference, and I suppose by the time soldiers were fighting on staircases the siege was probably nearly over anyway, but it always bugged me.
    Due to the stigma attached to being left handed back then it might have been hard to get volunteers for your specialist unit.

    Old words for right and left are Dexter (Right) and Sinister (left obviously). Sinister eventually also came to mean what it does now, something menacing or evil.

    With that kind of prejudice it's no wonder left handed types did their best to avoid getting noticed.


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    Member Member PBI's Avatar
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    Default Re: Left Handed Units?

    Still though, I'd be surprised if a social prejudice would be enough to make people keep putting themselves at a clear military disadvantage. If for no other reason, there's a fairly obvious natural selection process going on here. Basically, you would imagine that armies prejudiced against accomodating left-handed soldiers would become extinct fairly quickly, just like armies with a prejudice against using gunpowder or letting commoners join.

  20. #20
    The Laughing Knight Member Sir Beane's Avatar
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    Default Re: Left Handed Units?

    Quote Originally Posted by PBI View Post
    Still though, I'd be surprised if a social prejudice would be enough to make people keep putting themselves at a clear military disadvantage. If for no other reason, there's a fairly obvious natural selection process going on here. Basically, you would imagine that armies prejudiced against accomodating left-handed soldiers would become extinct fairly quickly, just like armies with a prejudice against using gunpowder or letting commoners join.
    I think that sort of evolution would only occur if welcoming left handed soldiers put you at a clear advantage. While you might gain a small situational advantage on spiral staircases or a small defensive bonus while protecting a phalanx, I doubt it would be enough to win a battle by itself.

    The fact that it simply didn't happen historically (or at least not very commonly) must mean that it probably didn't offer a significant advantage.

    Similarly you would think allowing women to join your forces would give you a huge advantage in numbers over an enemy force, but it very rarely happaned. And there are a LOT more women than there are left handed people.


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  21. #21
    The Dam Dog Senior Member Sheogorath's Avatar
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    Default Re: Left Handed Units?

    My general impression is that lefties were not FORBIDDEN from joining the army, indeed, several armies (the Russians come to mind) essentially took anybody they could get their recruiters could get their hands on (except Jews, who were allowed to buy their way out...yes, this is really true.)
    Lefties would simply be trained exactly the same as righties. Performance wouldn't matter and, as mentioned, left-handed habits would simply be beaten out of them.

    On a side note, why does Firefox give me a spelling error for 'righties' but not for 'lefties'?
    I call conspiracy.
    Tallyho lads, rape the houses and burn the women! Leave not a single potted plant alive! Full speed ahead and damn the cheesemongers!

  22. #22
    Senior Member Senior Member Fisherking's Avatar
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    Default Re: Left Handed Units?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheogorath View Post
    On a side note, why does Firefox give me a spelling error for 'righties' but not for 'lefties'?
    I call conspiracy.

    Actually it was an error in terminology. Properly it is right-handedness or right-handed half wits. I believe the second the most correct.


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  23. #23
    Member Megas Methuselah's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Re: Left Handed Units?

    Lefties are the spawn of the devil.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Lusted
    Yes armies in the 18th century were not exactly accomodating to us lefties.
    Praise Gawd!

  24. #24
    The Laughing Knight Member Sir Beane's Avatar
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    Default Re: Left Handed Units?

    Who knew there were so many left handed people about these days? If I had known I would have bought better locks. I kid, I kid. It isn't like I blame you for being left handed, after all you were born that way. Maybe one day they might find a cure.

    Left handed people must be one of the few groups a man can insult nowadays without being too politically incorrect. Them and the gingers.

    Also I hope all you left handed types realise I'm joking. I don't want you using evil magiks to kill me in my sleep. (Still joking, please don't take me seriously)
    Last edited by Sir Beane; 12-30-2008 at 23:05.


    ~ I LOVE DEMOS ~

    . -- ---------- --
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    . ----------------------


  25. #25

    Default Re: Left Handed Units?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Beane View Post
    Who knew there were so many left handed people about these days? If I had known I would have bought better locks. I kid, I kid. It isn't like I blame you for being left handed, after all you were born that way. Maybe one day they might find a cure.

    Left handed people must be one of the few groups a man can insult nowadays without being too politically incorrect. Them and the gingers.

    Also I hope all you left handed types realise I'm joking. I don't want you using evil magiks to kill me in my sleep. (Still joking, please don't take me seriously)
    It's not the left handed types you have to worry about... we happen to have a ginger haired super assassin moderator here at the .org so be careful....

    “The majestic equality of the laws prohibits the rich and the poor alike from sleeping under bridges, begging in the streets and stealing bread.” - Anatole France

    "The law is like a spider’s web. The small are caught, and the great tear it up.” - Anacharsis

  26. #26

    Default Re: Left Handed Units?

    personally, i prefer the army of clones. it just looks more professional-army like. The only time i like variety in the unit skins is a)the teutonic order in m2tw kingdoms(those helmets are awesome) or barbarians(rtw) or highlanders(scotts m2tw). i just find it cooler with an army of clones

  27. #27
    The Laughing Knight Member Sir Beane's Avatar
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    Default Re: Left Handed Units?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cynewulf View Post
    It's not the left handed types you have to worry about... we happen to have a ginger haired super assassin moderator here at the .org so be careful....

    I offer a tribute of four roast oxen to the mighty moderation team! Please don't have me 'disappeared' guys!

    *A small note. The oxen are digital e-oxen. Flavour and texture may not be the same as that of real oxen. I cannot be held responsible for the quality of any tribute you may choose to consume. Don't worry though, there has only been one case of dysentry as a result of e-oxen in the last month!.*
    Last edited by Sir Beane; 12-30-2008 at 23:57.


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  28. #28
    The Dam Dog Senior Member Sheogorath's Avatar
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    Default Re: Left Handed Units?

    Quote Originally Posted by peacemaker View Post
    personally, i prefer the army of clones. it just looks more professional-army like. The only time i like variety in the unit skins is a)the teutonic order in m2tw kingdoms(those helmets are awesome) or barbarians(rtw) or highlanders(scotts m2tw). i just find it cooler with an army of clones
    It makes sense, giving the period. Men were organized by height, regiments had specific types of facial hair (straight mustaches, downturned mustaches, upturned mustaches...the list goes on.), and, in general, the goal was to make everybody in a specific unit look as much like each other as possible within the professional armies.
    Tallyho lads, rape the houses and burn the women! Leave not a single potted plant alive! Full speed ahead and damn the cheesemongers!

  29. #29

    Default Re: Left Handed Units?

    Off-topic but the Viking berserkers were trained to use their left hands to gain an advantage over the right-handed opponents as they would have to fight across their bodies.

  30. #30
    The Dam Dog Senior Member Sheogorath's Avatar
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    Default Re: Left Handed Units?

    I was under the impression that Viking berserkers pretty much hit their opponent with everything they could think of as frequently as possible :P
    Tallyho lads, rape the houses and burn the women! Leave not a single potted plant alive! Full speed ahead and damn the cheesemongers!

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