Is Pontos impossible? Success stories wanted.

[Dayve]

I recently saw someone asking for advice on how to win with Pontos, and then reading the description for Pontos in game saw that it was nigh-impossible i couldn't resist the challenge.

I started the game on M/M. I was going to assess the starting situation and then set the difficulty level accordingly. I see that i start with 1 province that has barely any population or infrastructure, 5000 minai that was going to disappear as soon as i hit end turn and an army dwarfed both in size and quality by the two other nations that start in the same area that i do. Seeing all this i decided that M/M was justified.

I started by taking the two cities which have your armies close by. The one to the north of your capital and the one on the northwest coast. The battles were easy, i didn't have any number of casualties worth mentioning, but what did hurt was the fact that i had to leave either a full unit behind or a family member to keep the order, and set taxes to low. I decided to leave the skirmisher units behind.

I thought about using the 5000 minai to hire mercenaries but there wasn't anything worth buying, and even if there was in the long run it wouldn't have been of much use to me.

So i marched on, combined my two armies together and took Ankyra. With its mine i began making a little money each turn, but with 10,000 debt there was still nothing i could do but sit and wait. That's when the grey monster started laying siege to my cities. So i look at my situation and it's so hopeless that even Hannibal or Alexander themselves would shy away from the avenue of military action.

I have 4 cities, not even lightly defended, just a unit of skirmishers to keep the peace, and 2 have a FM in them because i didn't want to lose my line infantry or slingers, i needed them for the army.

I have an army, if you can call it that, with 3 full strength units of levy phalangites and one 1/4 strength unit of phalangites, a half unit of slingers which were badly mauled in a previous battle, a half unit of medium cavalry which has been molested in every battle since i started yet has no experience and a king with a very large bodyguard and 3 bronze chevrons.

In the west of my humble kingdom i face 2 Seleukid cities which are pumping out medium phalanxes, heavy skirmishers, thureophoroi and mercenaries. That's where my army is, and i know i can never beat these alone. In the east of the kingdom my capital is under siege by a half stack of medium phalanxes, heavy skirmishers and thureophoroi, and i have no forces to do anything about them.

So, it's a foregone conclusion. I will lose, no question, so i won't even bother to continue.

Now, i want a success story, if anybody has one. Is it possible to get up on your feet in a Pontos campaign?

[Cbvani]

The problem you face is on that is hardcoded. Simply put, the AI will concentrate on you, considering the player the major threat. You will lose. A-S is too close to Pontus not to squish it. I don't know of anyone that's taken Pontos to victory.

[Dayve]

Yeah i know it's a hardcoded problem that the AI will always attack the human, especially the grey monster who will ALWAYS attack you if you share a border with them.

As this is the case, do you not think it might be fair and justified to add two or three more units to Pontus' starting army, say an extra unit of slingers, an extra unit of levy phalangites and maybe 1 single unit of at least mid-range, decent infantry, as well as some extra population to the capital city and a little more infrastructure?

Even if you do this the faction is still going to go into debt immediately and it's still going to be a hell of a long time before you can recruit any new infantry, so it wouldn't be tipping the balance in your favour, merely giving you a fighting chance.

[Hax]

I don't know of anyone that's taken Pontos to victory.

I have. I conquered Ankyra and Sinope during the first few turns, and then Nikaia and waited until the Seleukids attacked me. Then I took Mazaka, Ipsos and Sardis (in that order). Then I rushed both Side and Tarsos from the Ptolemaioi and had a pretty good situation there.

Keep in mind that losing Amaseia is not the end of the world. If you use your spies right, you can quickly regain it.

[gamegeek2]

That's the thing with small factions vs. the Arche - don't be afraid to take them on and steal their cities - it weakens them. They are a monster that will keep returning for more, but take their cities, pump out troops, and eventually you will secure yourself with them. Tactical skill also helps. I learned this by playing Hayasadan and Saka Rauka, haven't played Pontos since I was a noob. Check my Saka AAR for an experience with the AS - THEY JUST DON'T GIVE UP!!!

[Beefy187]

I once tried bailing to the Bosphorus area. That worked quite nicely to get away from the nasty AS..

Just try and take Sinope on the first turn. Then slowly rally your left overs and migrate them to Bosphorus. Keep the capitol and Sinope so your income is steady.

Once your done, just start pumping out your quality troops if you succeed.

[Sdragon]

Did Pontus on H/M and got away with it. Took Sinope North of the capital. Then grabbed Nikaia and Byzantine. Byzantine was just weakened by a Macedonian attack. Then I took that city on the coast to the North. I left Tylis because I didn't want such a large boarder with the Macedonian crew. Thankfully that city was weak from a Getic attack so I grabbed that on the cheap too. After that I grabbed Ankyra and then skipped over Seleucid lands and got that Ptolemy city and sued for peace. At this point the Seleucid army came knocking and I just managed to fight them off. But after that I started my counter attack and I was set.

Interesting notes.
Macedonia, Getic and the Sarmations left me alone on the west despite the cities I bordered them with were poorly defended (one unit of tattered survivors). It was much later when they tried to bother me.
The Seleucid cities to my West made nothing and all the pressure was aimed at my capital.
I disbanded the near useless cavalry right at the start. You're fighting nothing but sieges at first, you don't need them.
I abused the heck out of my generals bodyguards. Even if they weren't needed in a fight I sent them in anyway until numbers thinned. It preserved my soldiers who aren't free.
That first battle against the Seleucid was fought with a tattered army but I had about 5 family members in the fight and they pretty much won it for me. Yeah I know, I'm cheap.
I ordered a road and trained more troops with my initial cash.
Nearly crippled myself with client rulers since they cost so much for those bodyguards upkeep.
Ptolemy stayed at war with the Seleucid until I attacked them, at which point they allied the next turn. I found it odd that the AI's took so long to buddy up against the flesh creature.

[MButcher]

In my Pontos campaign I took a different approach - I blitzed the AS right away. There are three reasons for this:

1. Your armies are perfectly positioned to take their cities immediately. If you send a spy to Mazaka then you can take that city on the first turn.

2. Their other two cities (Ipsos and Sardis) have mines already built in, meaning that you will get out of debt earlier.

3. If you take all their cities in Asia Minor immediately then the AS can only attack you from the east, which is good for bottle-necking.


You are going to find yourself at war with the AS eventually, so you might as well face them on your terms while your armies are at full strength.

[Dayve]

Well i just started again and i have to say it's going better than before. I immediately took the 3 Seleukid cities to the south and south-west with very little casualties, and currently i'm making an attempt to conquer the Seleukid capital and sack it to offset the remaining 8k debt and hire some troops. The army i have to do that with is pretty decent. My faction heir has a bodyguard of 90 men, 4 units of phalangites, 1 medium cav and 1 skirmisher unit. It isn't much, but then again, neither is the Seleukid army in and around their capital. Victory is within reach!

I'm playing on M/M though, so if i pull through i may have to heavily houserule myself to cancel out my advantage of having a functional brain.

[Kuningaz]

Well I did it too, took the rebell cities north and west of the capital (including Byzantium and Ankyra), then combined my armies, threw the Seleukids out of Mikra Asia, rebuilt my army, headed east, crushed a Seleukid army, went south and took Antiocheia and Assyria. Soon after Ptolies and Seleukids allied (which usually kills you), but for some strange reason only the Ptolies used Phalangitai, the AS only sent crappy levies. Once I had mines in all of Mikra Asia I first conquered the Ptolies, then the AS until Babylonia using the hammer and anvil tactic (which is ridicoulusly effective, using those pontic FMs) Everything else was more or less easy

[Dayve]

I tried that the first time, but once i'd taken Ankyra and the two other cities i barely had any army left to face the Seleukids, who had had time to build up a large army from their two cities which i would never defeat, and was 10 grand in debt.

This way seemed to do the trick just nicely. I kicked them out of their three cities straight away and instantly climbed out of debt, now making 3,000 a turn.

Don't know if it would have turned out this way on anything about M battle difficulty but i'm doing fine now.

[Tyrfingr]

I have a pontos campaign where Pontos has almost reached the size of the Byzantine Empire of Basil II, I only have to land in Italy.



Some rules though:

1) Minimize your casualties - every fallen soldier is a small victory for the AS
2) Disband your starting cavalry - it's expensive and useless anyway
3) Prepare not to be able build anything the 10-15 first years (except for occasional regional pacification)
4) Gain extra cash through diplomacy, selling map information, alliances and trade rights.
5) Always take a city on the second turn of the siege, otherwise precious time might be lost.
6) When you're going to take cities from the AS, do in this order: Ipsos, Sardis, Mazakata. By taking Ipsos & Sardis first, you pretty much eliminate the threat in the west for a couple of years.

[Dayve]

The only thing on your list i did was minimize casualties... I kept all my starting units, took Mazaka on turn 2 with the use of a spy, then Ipsos, then Sardis. By that time i had money to start putting in governments and haven't had a turn since where i wasn't bilding something or recruiting new units. A few turns after Sardis i took Ankyra and now i pull in like 3,500 a turn while supporting 2 armies... 1 east and one west.

Like i said before, i don't know if things would have worked out as well if i'd played on H or VH campaign difficulty because i only put it on medium, but yeah.

[Subotan]

Won't the addition of Pergamon in EB2 make Pontos even more nigh impossible?

[JRG]

I have a Pontos campaign (M/M) in which I have conquered all of Asia Minor, the east coast of the Mediterranean, and much of Egypt. I am currently fight with a huge Epeirote empire.
The way I did it:
1. With my starting armies, conquered Sinope, Nikaia and Byzantium. I was beginning to get out of debt at this point.
2. When the Seleukids inevitably attacked, I went west and took Sardis and Ipsos from them. By now, I was in the positive.
3. After this, I took Mazaka, then Trapezous and that city just south of it, which were owned by the Seleukids.

From this point on, your kingdom should be relatively secure, and in my case I secured a ceasefire and focused on the Ptolemies to the south, Galatia, and the other cities in Asia Minor.

One other thing: do not disband your starting armies. You will get in debt either way, but without armies you won't be able to get out of debt, because you will be stuck with just Amaseia.

[satalexton]

nah, it should be easier since AS has to deal with Pergamon...which means more breathing time for Pontos

[Charles the hammer]

pontos is difficult. i conquered northern turkey first. (mazaka sinope ankrya and nikia) then attacked the eastern settlements of AS in turkey. cutting off reinforcements. then i took the rest of their cities in turkey attacked Ptolemy using same strategy as above and conquered all of asia minor. I built full mines all settlements i could an finally started making money.( i was near bankruptcy in the early parts and after that most my money came from sacking. then i invaded greece from two points. byzantium and sparta. winning after years of hardship and times when i thought it was over. By the way galations rule!

[Tyrfingr]

Won't the addition of Pergamon in EB2 make Pontos even more nigh impossible?

Probably not, since some factions seems to take ages to make any progressions, Pontos is one of those. I have played a couple of campaigns in which the AI Pontos has not made a move (not even attacked Sinope) for 60 years!

[Sdragon]

Started a new game and I followed my last strategy but things went better than expected with the exception i wasn't able to grab the West coast of the Black Sea. When the Silver Death came they seemed to be going westward so since my army was in that area so did I. At this point my army was 4 units of Native pikemen with another reasonable strength in tow. 1 native spearmen (yet to fight) and my slingers. I grabbed Sardis and the town with no wall just North East of it. Thing about Sardis is that it has a 20,000K unique building. I knocked it down and got out of debt instantly and was left with 5K spending money. I usually don't do that but I made the exception.

They attacked my capital with a 4 unit army. I had a family member and 2 pikeman units I had just trained. Won the battle just. I took the time to grab the yellows town and then I came face to face with the silvers main army. It was the moment of truth. my army of 8 units Vs the enemy 15 unit stack of mercs. But they decided to ignore me and attack the rebel city of Ankyra which by this point had a half stack guarding it. Their attack failed and they lost most of their troops. They hired more mercs and brought up more men but if I can bring my troops together I should be able to handle them.

Remember this is on H/M

[Dayve]

I was so tempted to knock down that 20k building in Sardis when i was 10k in debt, but i ended the turn and saw i was making 2 or 3 grand a turn and decided to leave it.

I'm thinking of getting the campaign map difficulty changer mod now that i'm basically never going to lose any land and put it up to hard or very hard difficulty, i feel as though i'm cheating having it on medium now that i'm pulling 5k a turn and have two large armies.

My aged faction leader has gone a bit mad in his old age. He's centralized his kingdom with the capital at Ankyra, i'm creating units with 240 men in them from every city and disbanding them there, resulting in a huge multicultural city with very advanced infrastucture. It's where all new generals go to train for their future as governors and generals.

It's fun to roleplay.

[Tyrfingr]

Oh yeah, one more thing: Sardis, Ipsos & Ancyra should preferably not be conquered before the AI has built mines there, so you won't have to.

[V.T. Marvin]

Now, i want a success story, if anybody has one. Is it possible to get up on your feet in a Pontos campaign?

See the AAR "Pontus-Always outnumbered never outmatched" in my signature - it is from EB 0.81v2 and unfinished - but it shows the begining of the campaign whichis lwys the most interesting part. Yes, winning s Pontos is possible!
I have played as Pontos again in 1.1 (this time on H/H) and again it was a faantastic, very interesting campaign which was still challenging until the last stage. I abandoned it just four provinces awy from Victory conditions.

Play Pontos - it is fun!!!

[Subotan]

I didn't want to bump that thead, but I really enjoyed it. Good format, and a nice mix of homour/roleplaying made it very enjoyable, although it couold have been longer.

[StellarW]

Hi,

By no means impossible and in fact the first campaign i took on in EB. Since Vannila were not challenging enough i made sure to do my Pontus on VH/VH. Admittedly i used pretty much all the game had to offer ( including any form of horse archer i could find) and still had a slow start while figuring out some things about RTW i should have picked up long ago. As it turned out i met Karthadastim in the Balkans and had a stand up fight which seemingly lasted for ever until i could secure my last required provinces there in 172 BC.

I could bore you all with how i started but frankly it was a messy affair and good starting strategies has been outlined by the earlier posters.

Stellar

Edit: So where's your badge mister?

[the man with no name]

Y u necro-post? Stop it.

[V.T. Marvin]

Hey, what is so wrong about reviving old threads anyway? I now that there is a certain reluctance to bump older threads, but I really cannot understand why. To me it seems much better than to start a new thread, because usually much of the information needed was already said before and thus reviving older theads should be more convenient to reader and help to avoid unnecessary repetition and cluttering of the server...

So, please, enlighten me if my reasoning is wrong.

[Ignopotens]

I agree with you, Marvin. I always see people freaking out about "Thread Necromancy" but they also usually jump on people who post the same question that's been asked before. I don't see what's wrong with adding to an older discussion, provided the original thread is still relevant.

[StellarW]

And that commentary for a thread that is only a few month old! Perhaps i should say 'man with no ex gf's that were willing to hook up a few months after'? Sometimes you just have to wonder!

But perhaps i am being unfair so 'the man with no name' should feel free to expound on why reviving a apparently topical thread to , if admittedly to talk about myself, add another 'success story' is such a bad thing....

In my defense i do not often start threads in anything but bug forums on gaming sites so that should count too!.

Stellar




PS. Is anyone aware of a thread in the AAR section where i can see a victory screenshot, the completion date and the house rules used in that given EB campaign?

Thanks

[lionhard]

Id like to see a Screen shot or proof of any 1 who has completed a camaign with pontus on V/H , V/H hayasdan is easy cas u just keep requesting ceasefire from the selucids everytime they attack u, makes it boring and unrealistic :(

[A Very Super Market]

Bltizing makes any faction possible. I believe Fluvius has conquered the Med and Asia Minor in the year 242 already. Its quite easy to take advantage of the stupid AI.