Some joyous tidings from Israel

[Fragony]

Fragony, your capacity for highlighting the very point and then missing it spectacularly is only rivalled by your astoundingly brilliant irony. (You do know what shalom means?)

But of course, I may be an idiot but I am not uneducatd. This is a good thing, about time that hamas-trash is getting what it deserves, and that would be to be very much dead and most of all not alive.

Just because it's different doesn't mean it isn't love. With Hamas gone we can start fixing things.

[tibilicus]

Just because it's different doesn't mean it isn't love. With Hamas gone we can start fixing things.

Hamas wont die and they will never die. All that will happen is more will take up arms against Israel. And to be honest that isn't a bad thing, Israel are long over due an complete and utter ass whooping for there land hungry and imperialistic views in the middle east. Israelis seem to think they hold claim to the middle east and see themselves as superior to it's other "less civilized" neighbours.

As the loyalists would say in northern Ireland "no surrender".

[Fragony]

Hamas wont die and they will never die. All that will happen is more will take up arms against Israel.

Which they will do anyway, can't make peace with Hamas it isn't possible, but it is certainly possible to keep killing them, it's the only way. It's ugly, but it is just the way it is so if that would be ugly then let it be ugly. And I am not saying that Israel should kill them all but Israel has earned the right to take of it's silk gloves and not care that much.

[rory_20_uk]

Cobblers.

It's difficult to preach hatred against a country that isn't doing anything to you; getting people in Belgium to suicide attack France wouldn't be possible. Attacking a foe that is starving your family to death when it's not killing them isn't

If we were talking about commando raids killing key players then it is Israel vs Hamas. Missiles and blockage it is Israel vs the palestinians most of whom would rather be anywhere else in the world besides there.

The rockets are pretty pathetic as a weapon. If Palestinians had a quality of life and had even a passable relationship with Israel support would quickly wither. Indiscriminate killing - no I don't view as a missile blowing up the right house as descriminating - will not noticably harm such a low-tech foe.

[Fragony]

The rockets are pretty pathetic as a weapon.

But they keep flying regardless, they may be too blinded by hate to actually hit something but that doesn't make them any less hostile, if they had better equipment they would be using it. They are scum and Israel deals with it properly, making holes in them or making sure they are spread out among holes, I don't see anything wrong with that.

[LeftEyeNine]

Ha !

Bomb the hell out of people -death toll 300, wounded surpasses 2000- and expect to "teach them a lesson".

Which planet is that of which atmosphere you're inhaling ?

Turkish air forces bombed PKK camps a couple of months ago and it was all "HEY STOP ! STOP THERE, HEY HEY HEY STOP THERE UR HURTING CİV1L1ANS !111HUMANITARIANFECES".

Once more again: The whole world is about being powerful, not righteous. Jeez, you'll even have democracy-cradle Euros supporting your wicked cause.

For ****'s sake, they are using cell phones' lights to make surgeries over there right now while you have your console's gamepad in your hand.

I'm truly disgusted of you and your sense telling that "I am human, you are not".

[tibilicus]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/7803711.stm

Israel was fighting a "war to the bitter end" against Hamas, its defence chief said.

All this is just another political tool to try and keep the ruling Israeli party in power. if they fail then there will be an even more right wing party in power. Judging by the scenes here in England at the Israeli embassy the whole world right now pretty much hates their guts.

To be honest Israel has pretty much made one bad move after one bad move since the state was born. You look on t.v and see Israel and it's nice modern housing whilst 5 miles over the border you see Palestinians who have no homes being killed for no crime other than being in "Israel's land". The other attacks by Israel before were hardly justified but this is the last straw.

The plan for an Israeli state failed from day one and here it is over 60 years later still failing today.

[Hooahguy]

The plan for an Israeli state failed from day one and here it is over 60 years later still failing today.

i dont see how it was a complete failure. maybe in foreign relations its a failure, but technologically its pretty high up there, and weve done a lot with the land. it used to be barren wastelands for the most of it. have you seen pics of what is now Tel-Aviv back in the 1880s? its pretty astonishing how much its grown.

for a country to fail it literally has to fail completely, as in the entire country is in shambles. i dont see that.

[Banquo's Ghost]

But of course, I may be an idiot but I am not uneducatd. This is a good thing, about time that hamas-trash is getting what it deserves, and that would be to be very much dead and most of all not alive.

Just because it's different doesn't mean it isn't love. With Hamas gone we can start fixing things.

I didn't mean to imply you are uneducated, but the irony of your statement was too much to pass up. Nonetheless, I would agree with you about Hamas, but this is not the way to get rid of them. Indeed, it simply creates more radicals, whatever they choose to call themselves. No, they need to be marginalised - which means someone else ought to be doing the healthcare, water supplies, food and education etc.

No, but israel may wish to bargain from a position of power, much as Britian did with the IRA, (BG may disagree with me here).

I have no intention of disagreeing with you - we differed a little on the scale of the IRA's infiltration, but not the fact of it. In fact you illustrate the point for this thread perfectly: from a position of power, the British government realised it could not defeat the IRA utterly (so that it posed no future threat of any sort) or any of its splinter groups. The final defeat of violent republicanism had to come by engaging them in peaceful negotiation - to sit down with the men of terror and bring them into the mainstream. Just as the British had done with those terrorists in Palestine that wished to create the state of Israel.

I submit that Israel is already in a position of great power from which to start substantive negotiations. The first realisation that needs to dawn is that they will never completely defeat the terrorists through military means.

The plan for an Israeli state failed from day one and here it is over 60 years later still failing today.

On the contrary, Israel is a vibrant and civilised society, and rather too democratic for its own good. Compared to its neighbours - who rather ill-advisedly have tried on numerous occasions to destroy it - it is a model of liberal practice and thought.

You make the mistake of tarring all Israelis with the same brush. There are many who deplore the treatment of Palestinians and work very hard to better the situation. There are those who go so far as to refuse military service to make their point. The challenge for Israel is that like may democracies, conservatives and liberals are pretty much present in equivalent numbers. That means that the Knesset is often divided - and thus the influential hard-line religious parties (influence derived from very few seats, but the difference between winning and losing a vote of confidence) hold inordinate power.

Remember that the last Prime Minister to have made real progress to peace was assassinated by one of these fringe loonies. That's a hard legacy for any politician to ignore.

[Husar]

I'm truly disgusted of you and your sense telling that "I am human, you are not".

But we are.

Once more again: The whole world is about being powerful, not righteous. Jeez, you'll even have democracy-cradle Euros supporting your wicked cause.

Yes, but some people actually make an effort to improve things and some even call them heros *cough* Atatürk *cough*, yet you come here and say we should appreciate the status quo more and not try to change things for the better.

For ****'s sake, they are using cell phones' lights to make surgeries over there right now while you have your console's gamepad in your hand.

I bet many of them wish they could switch to having a console controller in their hand instead of being in that "operating room", from what I quoted before you sound like you think it's fine when they can't?

[LeftEyeNine]

Husar, are you on a deserted island ? You sound quite alienated.

[Ironside]

Something that actually seems to be new is that appearently Egypt, Saudi-Arabia, PLO and Jordan has changed the tone versus Hamas (from stop the aggression Israel, to stop the aggression both of you).

Thoughts?

Reduced support from Egypt means that the smuggling will go down and that also seems to been a target.

[Furunculus]

Hamas wont die and they will never die. All that will happen is more will take up arms against Israel.

And to be honest that isn't a bad thing, Israel are long over due an complete and utter ass whooping....

.....for there land hungry and imperialistic views in the middle east. Israelis seem to think they hold claim to the middle east and see themselves as superior to it's other "less civilized" neighbours.

No, but israel may wish to bargain from a position of power, much as Britian did with the IRA, (BG may disagree with me here).

But no country in the ME has the military competence to give israel a kicking.

Or possibly they just want strategic depth. SOME israelies see a divine right to the territory of biblical israel, only some.