Some joyous tidings from Israel

[rasoforos]

um, no its not. IMO, comparing the west bank to concentration camps is incedibly offensive to me and those who have lost ancestors to the nazis.

Imagine how offensive Israel's actions are to the people who gave their lives so your ancestors were able to survive to have descendants.

With closed borders, restriction in water electricity etc the palestinian areas are concentration camps. There is no escape from Gaza.

A few days ago a ship carrying aid, doctors and journalists was rammed by the Israeli navy in international waters just because it was heading for Gaza. Israel makes a point about maximizing the suffering of civilians.

The current state of Gaza does draw Holocaust parallels. Denying it is happening draws its own parallels too.

[Fragony]

Imagine how offensive Israel's actions are to the people who gave their lives so your ancestors were able to survive to have descendants.

With closed borders, restriction in water electricity etc the palestinian areas are concentration camps. There is no escape from Gaza.

A few days ago a ship carrying aid, doctors and journalists was rammed by the Israeli navy in international waters just because it was heading for Gaza. Israel makes a point about maximizing the suffering of civilians.

The current state of Gaza does draw Holocaust parallels. Denying it is happening draws its own parallels too.

Called a blockade perfectly normal in wartime, and it is a good thing the Palestinians have something to think about. I would imagine that the people surviving the holocaust would be blessed with a very keen sense for survival and Israel shows it does without being anything near what the nazi's were trying to establish. Again: sooooooooooooooooooooo soooooooo unfair give them nosy's a break already if they would be anything remotely like the nazi's there wouldn't be any arabs.

[Hooahguy]

Imagine how offensive Israel's actions are to the people who gave their lives so your ancestors were able to survive to have descendants.

With closed borders, restriction in water electricity etc the palestinian areas are concentration camps. There is no escape from Gaza.

A few days ago a ship carrying aid, doctors and journalists was rammed by the Israeli navy in international waters just because it was heading for Gaza. Israel makes a point about maximizing the suffering of civilians.

The current state of Gaza does draw Holocaust parallels. Denying it is happening draws its own parallels too.

ignore the fact that it was an unmarked vessel, when only red cross and the like vessels are allowed in. ignore the fact that the ship refused to make radio contact with the israeli navy, ignore the fact that israel cant afford to assume things. for all they know, the vessel had weapons in it.
my former congresswoman, Cynthia McKinney (who is rumored to be an anti-semite after some controversial comments about jews in an election to the state legislature, and has some issues with the capitol hill police) was on that boat. im glad they rammed it.

about drawing parallels to gaza with the holocaust:

im sorry, you really cant. the holocaust was a genocide. whats happening in gaza isnt a genocide- to say that it is one is just wrong. we arent rounding up palestinians and shooting them. there is no ethnic cleansing. to say there is, then i suggest you actually go to israel, tour the land, ask a few israeli-palestinians about the "genocide" there, then come back talk. ive done that already.
i suggest you take an in-depth course on the Holocaust. then maybe you will change your view.

[rasoforos]

we arent rounding up palestinians and shooting them.

So Gaza isnt one one of the most densely populated areas in the world and Palestinians can freely walk in and out of it and into Israel whenever they want...

there is no ethnic cleansing.

No. Israel carpetbombs criminal elements in its non-Palestinian territories as well I suppose.

to say there is, then i suggest you actually go to israel, tour the land, ask a few israeli-palestinians about the "genocide" there, then come back talk.

I wouldn't want to give money to a regime that does things I do not approve. From a historical perspective I would love to when there is peace and a fair solution.

(i.e the Sumerians gain control because they were there first or something )

i suggest you take an in-depth course on the Holocaust. then maybe you will change your view.

Do u really think that if I know more about the techniques the Nazis used to murder Jewish people I will gain an appreciation for the techniques Israel used to murder Palestinians? (Or the techniques Palestinians use to kill Israelis?).

Its murder of innocent people, people who have no possibility of escape and are considered second class citizens, people who due to their religious background are uniformly considered dangerous to the state.

My point is that from a people that suffered so much, such brutal actions bring only shame. I dont give a rat's whether (and I don't think) they are the same. But they are both atrocities and both have deniers (and that parallel I will draw, I don't want or need to draw more because that is not my point). And I condemn both.

[Hooahguy]

I wouldn't want to give money to a regime that does things I do not approve. From a historical perspective I would love to when there is peace and a fair solution.

then how can you be a fair judge on the situation? the way i see it, you are only hearing this from the media, who isnt always bias-free on either side. the best way to asses a situation is if you go there. why do you think so many people looking for a resolution to conflicts actually go to the place on conflict? sitting at a comfy desk at a computer doesnt cut it.

Do u really think that if I know more about the techniques the Nazis used to murder Jewish people I will gain an appreciation for the techniques Israel used to murder Palestinians? (Or the techniques Palestinians use to kill Israelis?).

no, but it will make you realize that how the holocaust cant compare to the treatment of palestinians.

[rasoforos]

then how can you be a fair judge on the situation? the way i see it, you are only hearing this from the media, who isnt always bias-free on either side. the best way to asses a situation is if you go there. why do you think so many people looking for a resolution to conflicts actually go to the place on conflict? sitting at a comfy desk at a computer doesnt cut it.

Are you suggesting that unless one goes there they cannot have an opinion? This is not something I can comply with because...

...I haven't been to planet Venus either but I trust it is a infernal hellhole.

Sure it is good to have a first hand look but we are entitled to our opinions regardless thank you very much. You are probably not in Gaza at the moment either :)

[KarlXII]

Are you suggesting that unless one goes there they cannot have an opinion? This is not something I can comply with because...

...I haven't been to planet Venus either but I trust it is a infernal hellhole.

Sure it is good to have a first hand look but we are entitled to our opinions regardless thank you very much. You are probably not in Gaza at the moment either :)

You don't get it, rasoforos, unless you've been there, you don't have a right to an opinion. All Hail Israel!

[KarlXII]

then how can you be a fair judge on the situation? the way i see it, you are only hearing this from the media, who isnt always bias-free on either side.

That's funny coming from you.

the best way to asses a situation is if you go there.

Ok, and?

why do you think so many people looking for a resolution to conflicts actually go to the place on conflict?

So they can speak directly to the belligerents in question.

sitting at a comfy desk at a computer doesnt cut it.

You're as much guilty of this as anyone else here. Just because you've been to the country doesn't mean you're the all knowing expert of it's affairs and policies.

If a university professor who studies extensively in Israeli-Arab relations does not have the chance to go to the country, is he not entitled to his opinion?

[Hooahguy]

Are you suggesting that unless one goes there they cannot have an opinion? This is not something I can comply with because...

...I haven't been to planet Venus either but I trust it is a infernal hellhole.

Sure it is good to have a first hand look but we are entitled to our opinions regardless thank you very much. You are probably not in Gaza at the moment either :)

no, you misunderstand me.
i did not say that you couldnt have opinion.s i dint not say that at all. i said the way to have the FAIREST opionion is to go to the place of conflict.
let me give you an example:
a few years ago Amnesty International condemned Israel for destroying the house of a known terrorist leader. afterwards, they went to the site, got the real story, and found out that no one was in the house and israel found valuable info in the house regarding future suicide plots and was able to foil them.
see?

[Hax]

a few years ago Amnesty International condemned Israel for destroying the house of a known terrorist leader. afterwards, they went to the site, got the real story, and found out that no one was in the house and israel found valuable info in the house regarding future suicide plots and was able to foil them.
see?

hooahguy, can you back that up with any links or something of the like? It's really easy to say that they did this and that.

[KarlXII]

i did not say that you couldnt have opinion.s i dint not say that at all. i said the way to have the FAIREST opionion is to go to the place of conflict.

I don't think so. Go to Israel and you will more than likely recieve a very pro-Israeli stance. Go to the Gaza strip and you will recieve a very pro-Palestinian stance. The only way I see is United Nations going in to investigate (They tried that, but Israel turned him down )