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  1. #1
    The Usual Member Ice's Avatar
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    Default Re: Some joyous tidings from Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by Tribesman View Post
    But hey look on the bright side , at least Hooah is consistant........ consistantly wrong
    You are fairly consistent yourself, Tribes.



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    Kanto Kanrei Member Marshal Murat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Some joyous tidings from Israel

    On Hamas demands...
    Reading the Wikipedia article on Hamas, specifically the "The possibility of a ceasefire with Israel" one sees some Hamas leaders calling for 1949 lines, 1967 lines, and all kinds of different requirements for Israel. It's ridiculous to try and figure out what Hamas wants, because I don't know what they want, and I don't think they know what they want.

    On Hamas being legitimate...
    I'm sure Hamas was elected by a majority of Palestinians. Everyone can agree on that. What we're having a problem with is the actions being attributed to Hamas. Hamas, if not having supported these rocket attacks, have allowed them to occur. They are either the murderers or those who hand the murderer the gun. They are legitimate, but their actions render them illegitimate in the eyes of many. They may "speak" for Palestinians, or they may do the speaking for them and keep them in the dark. I don't know, and you don't either. So if my country wants to throw the glove down and call Hamas terrorists, that's fine by me. They called the ANC terrorists too, but now we're recognizing them as a legitimate government not because they bullied and bombed the hell out of Johannesburg and Pretoria, but because they won it through fair elections and didn't begin the aforementioned killing.


    On aid to Palestine...

    US provides (and has provided) Palestine with about $85 million annually

    EU plans on resuming aid to Palestine

    Clearly aid has been sent to Palestine in amounts that are sufficient to create a 'stable' society if they used the money responsibly. But who wants to turn off a money valve right? That isn't to say that the money being shipped into Palestine is specifically being used to fund Hamas, it does mean that the Palestinians are doing something with the money, and it isn't the newest hospital. Besides, who really reports Iranian aid?


    On feeling bad for the Palestinians...
    I feel bad for the Palestinians, for the Israelis, for everyone. This plain old sucks. Trying to get that point across by whining about "us rich spoiled kids who live in splendor and opulence" not understanding what it's like to live without healthcare and running water.
    So what, do I have to live in a gulag to complain about them? Maybe I should be enslaved so I can appreciate anti-slavery? I don't have to experience those things to comment on them, so why should I retract my statement about Palestinians because I can type on a computer? I have my views and they are just as valid as yours. I'm sick and tired of this gross fallacy that I need to experience something or empathize with someone before I can comment on a subject.

    Guns of Gaza
    “Operation Lead” began with an artful deception effort. After Hamas refused to renew the truce that had been in effect and began launching unguided rockets against Israeli cities and towns again, the terrorists expected swift retaliation. In fact, Hamas welcomed the prospect, since its leaders knew the population of Gaza was wearying of their rule and the misery it fostered. The terrorists wanted a bloody exchange to rally Palestinians behind them again.
    Islamists legitimize anti-Semitism
    Fighting intensified on the northern outskirts of Gaza City yesterday as a Hamas leader warned that the Islamists would kill Jewish children anywhere in the world in revenge for Israel’s devastating assault.
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    Have you just been dumped?

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  3. #3
    This comment is witty! Senior Member LittleGrizzly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Some joyous tidings from Israel

    On Hamas demands...

    Hamas demands are unimportant, it is the crushing of palestinians will and spirit that causes terrorism not hamas, hamas is the result not the cause so hamas is basically unimportant in the discussion...

    What is important is that the palestinians are given a fair deal, i perscribe to the 1967 lines myself, thats what will stop terrorism...

    side noe it is surely a good sign that hamas members cannot agree on definitions themself, its show that democracy is alive and well when they have differing opinions on these matters. You could use any countries politicians disagreeing as an excuse otherwise...

    On Hamas being legitimate...
    I'm sure Hamas was elected by a majority of Palestinians. Everyone can agree on that. What we're having a problem with is the actions being attributed to Hamas. Hamas, if not having supported these rocket attacks, have allowed them to occur. They are either the murderers or those who hand the murderer the gun. They are legitimate, but their actions render them illegitimate in the eyes of many. They may "speak" for Palestinians, or they may do the speaking for them and keep them in the dark. I don't know, and you don't either. So if my country wants to throw the glove down and call Hamas terrorists, that's fine by me. They called the ANC terrorists too, but now we're recognizing them as a legitimate government not because they bullied and bombed the hell out of Johannesburg and Pretoria, but because they won it through fair elections and didn't begin the aforementioned killing.


    Both countries (israel and palestine) have legitimitally elected murderers. I want my leaders to treat these terrorist goverments the same, neither deserve anything but aid if they really need it....

    On aid to Palestine...

    That being the paltry sum compared to that given to israel..

    Clearly aid has been sent to Palestine in amounts that are sufficient to create a 'stable' society if they used the money responsibly.

    If israel would allow them a viable state, then sure they could. but they don't so the point is moot...

    But who wants to turn off a money valve right?

    Clearly not the many palestinian millionaires, or all those luxury tents they have in the refugee camps..

    Both sides have people who gain money from continuing the conflict, only the completely biased would think it is only true on one side

    On feeling bad for the Palestinians...
    I feel bad for the Palestinians, for the Israelis, for everyone. This plain old sucks.


    Im not sure how bad i feel for both civilian populations, as one ranting israeli supporter said on radio earlier, they're bringing this on themselves by electing hamas, except its true for the israelis as well, bringing it on themselves..

    I guess i feel sorry for the minoritys in both countries that want peace...

    I'm sick and tired of this gross fallacy that I need to experience something or empathize with someone before I can comment on a subject.

    Same here, this also applies for both sides, we can have opinions even though were rich haven't experienced terrorism and haven't had our race almost wiped out in some old peoples living memory

    Operation Lead” began with an artful deception effort. After Hamas refused to renew the truce that had been in effect and began launching unguided rockets against Israeli cities and towns again, the terrorists expected swift retaliation. In fact, Hamas welcomed the prospect, since its leaders knew the population of Gaza was wearying of their rule and the misery it fostered. The terrorists wanted a bloody exchange to rally Palestinians behind them again.

    This is possibly the worst reasoning for doing any military action!!!!

    Why did you invade... well the enemy wanted us to... ?!

    Sun Tzu would be spinning in his grave!

    im not sure where you were going with that... israel should invade because hamas wanted it to ?

    Fighting intensified on the northern outskirts of Gaza City yesterday as a Hamas leader warned that the Islamists would kill Jewish children anywhere in the world in revenge for Israel’s devastating assault.

    Well thats a surprise.... and i suppose there where no racist black groups in response to thier treatment by whites for years....

    or maybe it is common for a downtrodden people to dislike the powerful group that keeps it down... maybe it is a theme that commonly replays throughout history.... maybe it is to be expected that people will do this when they are treated badly by a group (be they whites, jews, arabs or those damn blue eyed people!)
    Last edited by LittleGrizzly; 01-06-2009 at 06:35.
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    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Some joyous tidings from Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by LittleGrizzly View Post

    Hamas demands are unimportant, it is the crushing of palestinians will and spirit that causes terrorism not hamas, hamas is the result not the cause so hamas is basically unimportant in the discussion...

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    This comment is witty! Senior Member LittleGrizzly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Some joyous tidings from Israel

    Thats a good point frag, i forget that the palestinians don't really care for thier lack of food and water, they don't really care that they live in refugee camps and have little access to medical care, they don't care that they die at a far higher rate than israelis in this conflict

    All the palestinians really care about is that everyone must praise allah!

    Maybe your onto something with your clever cartoon... the only reason for any terrorism from muslims is because they simply cannot accept people of other religions, all the wars and conflicts and puppet goverments inflicted on them are cheap excuses!

    ok thats my sarcasm fill for the day, on a serious note though.... even if all i sarcastically said was true, wouldn't it still be better to remove thier cheap excuses and expose them properly for what they are ?
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    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Some joyous tidings from Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by LittleGrizzly View Post
    Thats a good point frag, i forget that the palestinians don't really care for thier lack of food and water, they don't really care that they live in refugee camps and have little access to medical care, they don't care that they die at a far higher rate than israelis in this conflict
    Hamas don't care, all aid goes directly to Hamas, and what do they do? Yep buy rockets.


    Crashcourse Hamas for pacifists
    Last edited by Fragony; 01-06-2009 at 13:15.

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    Darkside Medic Senior Member rory_20_uk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Some joyous tidings from Israel

    I doubt Hamas has to buy the rockets.

    And considering that Israel doesn't even let money into the area, the oppourtunities to buy anything else are limited. And it has to be very low tech. Anything that requires electricity is out, as Israel disrupts supply. Anything that requires spare parts is a no-no. Even food imports appear to not be allowed.

    And what exactly is Hamas to purchase that Israel will not view as a legitimate target? Water treatment plants, fuel supplies etc are all fair game it seems.

    If you give people hope they'll be far more concerned about living to tomorrow. Bombing in built up areas and then blaming the only people that appear to be helping them isn't going to win hearts and minds.

    An enemy that wishes to die for their country is the best sort to face - you both have the same aim in mind.
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    This comment is witty! Senior Member LittleGrizzly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Some joyous tidings from Israel

    Why do people always get so upset by this subject? And why do people feel like they have to pick sides in this conflict?

    I started out on this topic trying my hardest to criticise both equally, the fact that israel is the powerful oppressor whose citizens mainly live in nice conditions and the palestinians are the oppressed who live mainly in refugee camps and the like simply leaves me unable to defend israeli actions

    Both parties have committed attrocities and in a way, you could say they act like children who refuse to grow up.

    Why don't they create a (con)federal state, with protection of minority rights and a veto for each group on important issues?

    Yes, there will be alot of bickering in parliament, yes there will be alot of absurdity, but that only leads to citizens who are disgusted by politicians (people will always dislike politicans, just like they dislike crooked salesmen, lawyers, etc. ) and high taxes; nobody dies of it.

    Sounds like a great idea!

    I think you would find more opposition form israelis than palestinians on your resolution, basically any decent resolution involves israel giving something and the palestinians getting something, it seems unfair but the palestinians simply have nothing to give, it is israel that has most to gain from the status qou over some peaceful resolution (one reason why i think they encourage this perpetual state of war)

    really, really don't understand why this dispute hasn't been resolved yet.

    For reasons beyond my comprehension, it seems to me both parties prefer this perpetual state of war (and the misery and tragedy inherent on it) over a peaceful society (with the occasional tensions, but without spilling blood).


    Basically the state of israel would have to give stuff away or at least share
    Leaders of fringe loonies would lose votes as you don't these loonies if theres no enemy to fight (goes for leadership of both peoples)
    and basically most dictators in the mid east are happy to use the thing as a distraction from the lack rights and progress in thier own countrys

    3. You mean he admitted that there must be a political end to a conflict like NI, no kidding. so what?

    So maybe after years of israel trying to blow people up and shoot them, they need to stop and go for a political end, which there has to in a conflict like this involving terrorists, and im guessing you agree here...?

    6. I would rather see an administration in gaza that is interested in peacefully co-existing with the sovereign nation state of israel.

    Me too. But until israel modifys it tactics so that such an administration is possible it would be nice to see them get thier fingers burned... again...
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    This comment is witty! Senior Member LittleGrizzly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Some joyous tidings from Israel

    You may laugh but those israeli oranges i ate directly supported the war!

    though tbh i can't think of much, i would hope that pressure would bring to bear in general so that big shops would stop stocking israeli goods wholesale, if enough people did it with just silly things like oranges it can make a difference

    Intel has some fabs and design labs in israel, who invented the Banias chip which is the precursor to the successful "Core" family of processors which replaced the hopeless P4 line.

    I would give those up, that'll stick it to'em!


    Buy athlon in future, inform pentium of reasoning for decision, encourage anyone and everyone to do those 2 steps... Got it!

    so far we have pentuims oranges and a whole bunch of weaponary....

    Hamas don't care, all aid goes directly to Hamas, and what do they do? Yep buy rockets.

    Actually sorry to correct you there, but Hamas provides basic social services to the palestinian people, infact given the wealth of their arab backers im sure they could quite easily cover thier weapons and other military bills by arab backers alone, meaning they actually spend the aid on aid!

    Does hamas even get any aid ?

    BTW you kind of missed the point of my post

    Is the whole reason for palestinian terrorism to convert everyone to islam ?
    or are there maybe other factors you perhaps overlooked.... like dirt poor poverty, killed children, lack of access to water supplies (what is it like 5-10% of the total water ?)
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    Liar and Trickster Senior Member Andres's Avatar
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    Default Re: Some joyous tidings from Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by LittleGrizzly View Post
    I think you would find more opposition form israelis than palestinians on your resolution, basically any decent resolution involves israel giving something and the palestinians getting something, it seems unfair but the palestinians simply have nothing to give, it is israel that has most to gain from the status qou over some peaceful resolution (one reason why i think they encourage this perpetual state of war)

    But the Palestinians do have something to offer: peace = no more waste of human (jewish and palestinian!) lives.

    And, thinking long term here, once Palestinians get jobs and build up their part of the newly created country, they will add revenue to the newly created state (taxes).
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    Bopa Member Incongruous's Avatar
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    Default Re: Some joyous tidings from Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshal Murat View Post
    On Hamas demands...
    Reading the Wikipedia article on Hamas, specifically the "The possibility of a ceasefire with Israel" one sees some Hamas leaders calling for 1949 lines, 1967 lines, and all kinds of different requirements for Israel. It's ridiculous to try and figure out what Hamas wants, because I don't know what they want, and I don't think they know what they want.

    On Hamas being legitimate...
    I'm sure Hamas was elected by a majority of Palestinians. Everyone can agree on that. What we're having a problem with is the actions being attributed to Hamas. Hamas, if not having supported these rocket attacks, have allowed them to occur. They are either the murderers or those who hand the murderer the gun. They are legitimate, but their actions render them illegitimate in the eyes of many. They may "speak" for Palestinians, or they may do the speaking for them and keep them in the dark. I don't know, and you don't either. So if my country wants to throw the glove down and call Hamas terrorists, that's fine by me. They called the ANC terrorists too, but now we're recognizing them as a legitimate government not because they bullied and bombed the hell out of Johannesburg and Pretoria, but because they won it through fair elections and didn't begin the aforementioned killing.


    On aid to Palestine...

    US provides (and has provided) Palestine with about $85 million annually

    EU plans on resuming aid to Palestine

    Clearly aid has been sent to Palestine in amounts that are sufficient to create a 'stable' society if they used the money responsibly. But who wants to turn off a money valve right? That isn't to say that the money being shipped into Palestine is specifically being used to fund Hamas, it does mean that the Palestinians are doing something with the money, and it isn't the newest hospital. Besides, who really reports Iranian aid?


    On feeling bad for the Palestinians...
    I feel bad for the Palestinians, for the Israelis, for everyone. This plain old sucks. Trying to get that point across by whining about "us rich spoiled kids who live in splendor and opulence" not understanding what it's like to live without healthcare and running water.
    So what, do I have to live in a gulag to complain about them? Maybe I should be enslaved so I can appreciate anti-slavery? I don't have to experience those things to comment on them, so why should I retract my statement about Palestinians because I can type on a computer? I have my views and they are just as valid as yours. I'm sick and tired of this gross fallacy that I need to experience something or empathize with someone before I can comment on a subject.

    Guns of Gaza


    Islamists legitimize anti-Semitism


    Oh God! Used the money properly? Hamas is one of the best political formations ever to occur in Gaza, the people love them because they are not corrupt (as corrupt).

    Western support for any opposition is once again a showcase for our general disdain for 3rd world democracy, the US will never be safe as long as it pisses people off by making a mockery out of their politics. You dare point the finger at the Gazans for being depserate enough (we are talking life and death everyday, I hear most Israelis have enough food and water) to vote in killers when the Israeli's went one worse with Sharon, taking the piss or what?

    What this is, is a modern day colonial war, something none of us have witnessed before, the carving out of a nation from another already there. It sanctioning by the West is the best illustration that none of us really give a toss about human rights or any of that bollocks spewed out by that tosser in a wheel chair or any of the others since.

    I mean really, that some Americans think their nation is nice, get with it, you support some of the most vile people in the world, Isreali politicians amongs them.
    Last edited by Incongruous; 01-06-2009 at 07:09.

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    BrownWings: AirViceMarshall Senior Member Furunculus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Some joyous tidings from Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by Bopa the Magyar View Post


    You dare point the finger at the Gazans for being depserate enough (we are talking life and death everyday, I hear most Israelis have enough food and water) to vote in killers when the Israeli's went one worse with Sharon, taking the piss or what?
    don't pick up tribesmans bad habits, they are fairly repellent.

    yes i dare, they are responsible for their actions and will suffer the consequences, in the same way that 911 victims are responsible for an interventionist Gov't which has made enemies around the world while it worked to create conditions that will ensure amercian hegemony.

    there is always a price to be paid.
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    Default Re: Some joyous tidings from Israel

    Oh dear more Israelis have been killed , by Israel .
    Now I know mistakes happen but firing a tank shell at a battalion commander killing 3 and wounding 20 is a bit of a screw up isn't it , but on the bright side at least the IDF can claim they didn't target civilians when they blew up the building .

    Clearly aid has been sent to Palestine in amounts that are sufficient to create a 'stable' society if they used the money responsibly.
    It's rather hard to create a stable society when 80% of the population is reliant on food aid , its difficult to get a working economy or food aid to the population when the borders are closed .
    According to Oxfam Gaza requires about 400 truck loads of food delivered per day , yet the crossing open at the moment can only transit about 100 trucks per day .
    Its interesting that you note that the US gives about 85 million annually , can you tell me how many millions in Palestinian government income Israel has taken every month and kept because it won't give the Palestinians government money to the Palestinian government ?
    Its rather hard to get a stable society when your borders are closed and your revenue is being stolen isn't it .

  14. #14
    This comment is witty! Senior Member LittleGrizzly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Some joyous tidings from Israel

    poor analogy.

    Britain is not a tiny nation of ~6 million.
    Britain is not a tiny space with zero strategic depth.
    Britain was/is not surrounded by three hostile nations all of which are much bigger.
    Britain is not a 60 year old nation with all the foreign hostility that entails.
    Britain is not a 60 year old nation with all the instability that entails.
    Britain has not fought three wars of survival in the last 60 years.
    Britain is a Great Power with a great deal of diplomatic influence.
    Britain is an island with a powerful navy that provides a level of security unimaginable to israel.

    In short, we had a million options not currently available to israel.


    My point is there is a way of dealing with terrorism, there is a way which reduces tensions all round, and there is a way which hieghtens tensions all round.

    Being that israel is in a worse position than britian shouldn't it try even harder than britian did with the ira to get peace, if there was no palestinian issue then israel would have relatively few problems

    Surely all your points are even greater incentive for israel to act cooperatively and to reduce the terrorists support ?

    though a few issues with some of your points

    Britain was/is not surrounded by three hostile nations all of which are much bigger.

    Israel may be surronded by bigger countries but militarily it is far more capable than those nations combined, so no real excuse there and egypt is no longer an enemy.

    Britain is a Great Power with a great deal of diplomatic influence.

    Well we didn't have the same level of support america gives israel in its battle against terrorism, werent the ira still collecting in usa not long before 9/11, the huge support of america more than makes up for this im sure

    Britain is not a tiny space with zero strategic depth.
    Britain is not a 60 year old nation with all the foreign hostility that entails.

    When was the last war.... 67... surely that can't still be a good excuse for the israelis not to deal with terrorism properly, with egypt out of the picture any invasion is impratical inworkable and will never succeed, thus a crappy excuse of israel's behalf....

    Britain has not fought three wars of survival in the last 60 years.

    '48 '67 and..... ? the infadata (sp?) ? i would hardly call the last one a war for survival, and '67 that was 40 years ago... get with the times, israel is not going to be invaded by nieghbouring states, as much as it would like to keep peddling this line....

    Britain is an island with a powerful navy that provides a level of security unimaginable to israel.

    Well i see an invasion by a foriegn power of britian only slightly less likely than israel, in reality neither is going to happen anytime soon barring major political shifts..... in other words a crappy excuse...

    Britain is not a tiny nation of ~6 million.

    Im basically left with just this one, but anyway as i earlier said being a much smaller population you have far more incentive for peace, far more incentive to go down the britian ira route which has basically reduced terrorism to non existant rather than the isreali route which seems to have been creating more terrorists.

    poor analogy.

    I think it fits very well as a case of how to deal with terrorism, it is essentially people that keep terrorism going, the only way to defeat it is either hearts and minds, or kill them all. Kill them all isn't a viable option so hearts and minds is the only workable approach

    yes i dare, they are responsible for their actions and will suffer the consequences, in the same way that 911 victims are responsible for an interventionist Gov't which has made enemies around the world while it worked to create conditions that will ensure amercian hegemony.

    I can respect that, your approach is consistent.

    Its something i wonder about myself somewhat, if a democratic society elects people which go and do bad things around the world, does this in a sense legitimise terrorist attacks against itself...

    and i think in a sense it does

    Just a little side note i would also like to make about hamas indiscriminate rocket firing

    Doesn't anyone stop for a second and think that if hamas had all the expensive equipment the israelis had that they would love to go after israels leaders, police force and army the way israel went after thiers...

    I have no doubt in my mind that the vast majority of hamas members (of the terrorist wing of the organisation) are happy to kill innocent civilians, byut don't you think they would be far happier if they had the latest technology and could get the leaders in the same way israel gets hamas leaders....

    Another thing to go into would be israel saying look how much better we are than hamas because of these parts of thier extremist agenda... well back to the ira, back in the day (before we tried negoations and other weak kneed liberal policies) the ira said some pretty extreme things, the downtrodden under the boot of the mighty are going to be the extremists, the rich and powerful are never going to be the extremists, but anyway, you'll never guess what happened, when we actually started resolving the situation bit by bit thier extremist propaganda died away...

    They even had the real ira split from the ira, and despite thier best efforts to stir up trouble britian resisted stayed the course and we now have a peaceful ireland, if only the israelis could look at the example set and see that thier going about it the wrong way completely
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    Default Re: Some joyous tidings from Israel

    '48 '67 and..... ? the infadata (sp?) ?
    You are missing the six day war .

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    This comment is witty! Senior Member LittleGrizzly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Some joyous tidings from Israel

    Ok now i am confused i thought '67 was the six day war ?

    At least that is what wiki is telling me....

    I do not support targeting civilians

    I more mean it adds legitimacy to its actions, not that thier supportable or right...
    Last edited by LittleGrizzly; 01-06-2009 at 11:22.
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    BrownWings: AirViceMarshall Senior Member Furunculus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Some joyous tidings from Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by Tribesman View Post
    You are missing the six day war .
    Yom Kippur War of 73?
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    BrownWings: AirViceMarshall Senior Member Furunculus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Some joyous tidings from Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by LittleGrizzly View Post
    yes i dare, they are responsible for their actions and will suffer the consequences, in the same way that 911 victims are responsible for an interventionist Gov't which has made enemies around the world while it worked to create conditions that will ensure amercian hegemony.

    I can respect that, your approach is consistent.

    Its something i wonder about myself somewhat, if a democratic society elects people which go and do bad things around the world, does this in a sense legitimise terrorist attacks against itself...

    and i think in a sense it does
    I do not support targeting civilians, but the only true innocents are those living under unrepresentative and repressive regimes. :)
    Furunculus Maneuver: Adopt a highly logical position on a controversial subject where you cannot disagree with the merits of the proposal, only disagree with an opinion based on fundamental values. - Beskar

  19. #19
    Liar and Trickster Senior Member Andres's Avatar
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    Default Re: Some joyous tidings from Israel

    Why do people always get so upset by this subject? And why do people feel like they have to pick sides in this conflict?

    Both parties have committed attrocities and in a way, you could say they act like children who refuse to grow up.

    Why don't they create a (con)federal state, with protection of minority rights and a veto for each group on important issues?

    Yes, there will be alot of bickering in parliament, yes there will be alot of absurdity, but that only leads to citizens who are disgusted by politicians (people will always dislike politicans, just like they dislike crooked salesmen, lawyers, etc. ) and high taxes; nobody dies of it.

    I really, really don't understand why this dispute hasn't been resolved yet.

    For reasons beyond my comprehension, it seems to me both parties prefer this perpetual state of war (and the misery and tragedy inherent on it) over a peaceful society (with the occasional tensions, but without spilling blood).

    I guess I'm the idiot, by expecting common sense from the people who are in power
    Andres is our Lord and Master and could strike us down with thunderbolts or beer cans at any time. ~Askthepizzaguy

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  20. #20

    Default Re: Some joyous tidings from Israel

    Israel hadn't even tried to get along with it's neighbours. The fact is that if the opportunity was given to Israel tomorow to take Gaza with no international repercussions they would take it with out a doubt. Fact.
    That isn't true , Israel would only take Gaza if there were not those pesky locals living there .

    Yom Kippur War of 73?
    my mistake , it confusing with so many wars , of course Yom Kippur was '73 thats when some countries launched a surprise attack on Israel , the six day war was when Israel launched a surprise attack on some countries .
    I suppose we should add the '56 war when Israel and its european allies started a war and the South Lebanon war where Israel and its terrorist friends had a little party that didn't turn out too well .

    What Goods to Israel even produce?

    I can honestly say I cant recall seeing anything with made in Israel on..
    They export loads of things , but they have got in a bit of trouble lately for selling stuff as "Made in Israel" when it has been produced in the illegal setlements .

    what I'm trying to do though is show Hoohaguy why this conflict has been brought about.
    Have you perhaps considered talking to a brick wall ? It might get better results
    Last edited by Tribesman; 01-06-2009 at 13:20.

  21. #21
    BrownWings: AirViceMarshall Senior Member Furunculus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Some joyous tidings from Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by Tribesman View Post
    my mistake , it confusing with so many wars , of course Yom Kippur was '73 thats when some countries launched a surprise attack on Israel , the six day war was when Israel launched a surprise attack on some countries .
    I suppose we should add the '56 war when Israel and its european allies started a war and the South Lebanon war where Israel and its terrorist friends had a little party that didn't turn out too well .
    come on now, i was just being nice and informing you in a nice way of a teensy error you had made, a quick "thanks" would have more than sufficed.
    Last edited by Furunculus; 01-06-2009 at 13:45.
    Furunculus Maneuver: Adopt a highly logical position on a controversial subject where you cannot disagree with the merits of the proposal, only disagree with an opinion based on fundamental values. - Beskar

  22. #22
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Some joyous tidings from Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by Andres View Post
    Why do people always get so upset by this subject? And why do people feel like they have to pick sides in this conflict?

    Both parties have committed attrocities and in a way, you could say they act like children who refuse to grow up.
    Oh I completely agree and mentioned it some pages ago but it doesn't really fit with the usual "us vs. them" kind of tribal thinking we still find in the "enlightened" west. If it helps in any way, my guess is that tribesman has a similar stance but noone notices because he is always "them" anyway.

    There were one or two others but the voices of reason are too often drowned by the waves of "Kill them!"-shouters, which shows that in a way this forum is just like the middle east.
    Last edited by Husar; 01-07-2009 at 00:47.


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