Some joyous tidings from Israel

[Strike For The South]

Why is this any more different then when Israel kills a couple thousand Arabs? The only reason I ask is because this happens quite often and this is a very very long thread.

Color me unimpressed. Wake me when we start getting in the ten thousands range and then I might be bothered to look.

[Hooahguy]

Do you have a link for that?

thats just what i heard on the radio- how secondary explosions rocked the buildings.

[Hooahguy]

The only reason I ask is because this happens quite often and this is a very very long thread.

indeed... imagine- 22 pages for a tiny little country that is less than 1/2 the size of my lovely state of Georgia!

[Papewaio]

So, what exactly is your point here? Is Israel obligated to wait until Hamas evens out the body count in order to proceed with the military campaign?

Both diplomacy and justice are based on reciprocity and proportional response. Israel can defend itself by all means.

They aren't a threat precisely because Israel does not *allow* them to become one. Every once in a while they require a proper whipping from the IDF in order to keep them in line.

You do realise that this 'proper whipping' is killing about a third children. First and foremost remember that all this collateral damage is human, adults and children, that the median age in Gaza is 17.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Out of the 758 dead the Palestinian MoH estimates about 350 dead. Hamas has also executed Palestinian civilians for "collaboration with Israel."

EDIT: And when complaining about the dead, stop mentioning the 758 figure, unless you believe that Israel shouldn't fire on militants.

EDIT II: This isn't directed against anybody in particular.

EDIT III: And those civilian deaths are almost impossible to avoid, because of the ways Hamas integrates with the civilian population.

[rvg]

Both diplomacy and justice are based on reciprocity and proportional response. Israel can defend itself by all means.



You do realise that this 'proper whipping' is killing about a third children. First and foremost remember that all this collateral damage is human, adults and children, that the median age in Gaza is 17.

Civilian casualties are regretable, but practically impossible to avoid.

[Guildenstern]

Civilian casualties are regretable, but practically impossible to avoid.

I think Israeli Rules of Engagement seem to be very simple. They are to execute any human that is not an Israeli.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

I think Israeli Rules of Engagement seem to be very simple. They are to execute any human that is not an Israeli.

Somehow I doubt that.

[Watchman]

EDIT III: And those civilian deaths are almost impossible to avoid, because of the ways Hamas integrates with the civilian population.

Then maybe Israel shouldn't shoot at them with high explosives in the first place...?

[Guildenstern]

Somehow I doubt that.

I'm able to distinguish between a terrorist organisation that has vowed to wipe its neighbour off the map, and a sovereign nation defending itself against these terrorists. But I firmly believe that the level of the offences and the enormity of the actions by Israeli soldiers in the Gaza Strip are disproportionate. I think that the right to self defence can be exercised within limits.

[Andres]

Civilian casualties are regretable, but practically impossible to avoid.

I know an easy way to avoid civilian casualties: don't attack

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Then maybe Israel shouldn't shoot at them with high explosives in the first place...?

I know an easy way to avoid civilian casualties: don't attack

So you are both essentially in favour of Israel sitting back and taking rocket attacks, and not utilizing the right to defend itself?

[Tribesman]

Guildernstern , you would do better with that line if you went for the IDf rules of engagement in Lebanon where they simply declared that there were no civilians so they could cover the place with cluster bombs .

thats just what i heard on the radio- how secondary explosions rocked the buildings.

Secondary explosions mean nothing without a forensic examination .
It did make me laugh when they said about secondary explosions after they blew up the university science classrooms .

[Andres]

So you are both essentially in favour of Israel sitting back and taking rocket attacks, and not utilizing the right to defend itself?

Well, I think I made my point of view on this matter pretty clear in my previous posts.

I'm all for peace. As long as rockets and bullets are floating through the air, there won't be no peace.

Somebody in this conflict has to be the first to stop killing people

[Rhyfelwyr]

So you are comparing Israels actions to a crazed dictator who thought he was on a mission from god .
Thats errrrr.....thats anti-semetism that is

Sorry that this is OT, but Cromwell is one of the single most brutally judged characters in history. I know the Protestants carried out many atrocities in Ireland, but you can't pin them on Cromwell and in the grand scheme of things not even the New Model Army - they acted within the accepted rules of war of the time, and they were only in Ireland in the first place because the common folk participating in the native rebellions had failed to do so.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Hamas is never going to play nice with Israel. Look at their founding charter. Whatever Israel does, Hamas is never, ever, ever going to be peaceful.

[Watchman]

So you are both essentially in favour of Israel sitting back and taking rocket attacks, and not utilizing the right to defend itself?

Israel is going to be suffering such attacks, in one form or another, as long as it's going to insist on being a stubborn ass about the Eretz Yisrael thing. So meh. Build a house in a swamp, and the mosquitos will sting you.

On a more practical note, the rocket attacks are essentially a gesture and cause few if any casualties. Conversely, the Israeli reprisals are very destructive and cause huge numbers of casualties. Do the damn math. If they now must strike back, they could at least try to do it in a fashion that didn't cause massive collateral damage.

Hamas is never going to play nice with Israel. Look at their founding charter. Whatever Israel does, Hamas is never, ever, ever going to be peaceful.

Ink on paper, self-declared. Realpolitik tends to sideline such heady declarations something fast once the situation changes. Bet you the same was once said about the USSR and their grandiose hot air about "perpetual world revolution" and the IRA regarding the UK...
Hell, more likely than not the PLO/Fatah too.

So yeah.

[Hosakawa Tito]

EDIT III: And those civilian deaths are almost impossible to avoid, because of the ways Hamas integrates with the civilian population.

The only thing more precious to Hamas than dead Israelis is dead Palestinians...

[Incongruous]

so basically you say its ok for hamas to do it, but you go all up in arms if israel is accused of doing it.

Yes, an occupying colonial force invokes by its impressement upon the natives, a foreign and brutal rule, the natural consequence of bloody reprisal. You want to play conquest then you have to accept the terms.

Israel hs never held to any peace treaty, has constantly been warring upon the Palestinian people and is a rogue state of the most heinous sort. Thank god that their bank is going down, justice cannot be too far off.

[Incongruous]

The only thing more precious to Hamas than dead Israelis is dead Palestinians...

Yeah right, another score for Western distortions of the truth, the belief that Hamas are in some way an extremist group (this will be funny in a few decades) and that they are also in some way apart from the people of Gaza.

Hamas is Gaza, they were born in Gaza, their families dot the many streets of Gaza, without Gaza there is no Hamas. Everytime a Gazan is murdered by Israel, it will usually in some way affect at least one member of Hamas.

Hamas do not use the people of Gaza, they are the people of Gaza.

John Pilger speaks out

http://www.johnpilger.com/page.asp?partid=519

Fighting in Gaza

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Iyxc5EHtrU

Well, you get the idea, no?

[Strike For The South]

Just like the NAZIs didnt use the people of Germany? Or Stalin the Soviets?

Pluhhhheeeeeeseeeeeeee.

[Hooahguy]

this sums it up pretty well:

[Incongruous]

Just like the NAZIs didnt use the people of Germany? Or Stalin the Soviets?

Pluhhhheeeeeeseeeeeeee.

Hmm, well, which nation does Hamas want to wipe off the face of the earth? If you answer Israel, you are...

An idiot and a fool.

Which nation is Israel taking active steps to destroy?
starts with P, followed by alastinians.

[Strike For The South]

Pardon for going OT but Hooah what is a Jewrican?

Bopa you always overestimate how much I give a damn when it comes to this subject. Frankly we should give the most money to the side that says the will ethnically cleanse in the shortest amount of time. That way my news will go back to covering to more important things like American Idol and two headed farm animals.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Hmm, well, which nation does Hamas want to wipe off the face of the earth? If you answer Israel, you are...

An idiot and a fool.

Well, I always knew Hamas was foolish...

[Incongruous]

Well, I always knew Hamas was foolish...

Well if you are not only trying to claim that Hamas wishes to destroy Israel but are using Wikipedia to back it up instead of the actual statement made by Hamas a while back, then yes I am afraid you are.

[Incongruous]

Pardon for going OT but Hooah what is a Jewrican?

Bopa you always overestimate how much I give a damn when it comes to this subject. Frankly we should give the most money to the side that says the will ethnically cleanse in the shortest amount of time. That way my news will go back to covering to more important things like American Idol and two headed farm animals.

Yes, I feel we have been here before, I perhaps should remove my Raging Bull goggles when replying to you?

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Well if you are not only trying to claim that Hamas wishes to destroy Israel but are using Wikipedia to back it up instead of the actual statement made by Hamas a while back, then yes I am afraid you are.

Fine, have the Hamas Covenant itself:

http://www.fas.org/irp/world/para/docs/880818a.htm

Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it.

[Peace] initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and

international conferences are in contradiction to the principles of

the Islamic Resistance Movement... Those conferences are no more than

a means to appoint the infidels as arbitrators in the lands of

Islam... There is no solution for the Palestinian problem except by

Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are but a

waste of time, an exercise in futility.

[Strike For The South]

Yes, I feel we have been here before, I perhaps should remove my Raging Bull goggles when replying to you?

Whatever gets you to stop listening to that horrid abomination you call music.

[Incongruous]

Fine, have the Hamas Covenant itself:

http://www.fas.org/irp/world/para/docs/880818a.htm

Yet you continue in absurdity!

Anyone who knows something about Hamas knows that they reviewed that little gem a while back.