Some joyous tidings from Israel

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Really ?

Our right to exist--have you ever heard of such a thing? Would it enter the mind of any Briton or Frenchman, Belgian or Dutchman, Hungarian or Bulgarian, Russian or American, to request for its people recognition of its right to exist? Mr. Speaker, we were granted our right to exist by the God of our fathers at the glimmer of the dawn of human civilization four thousand years ago. Hence, the Jewish people have an historic, eternal and inalienable right to exist in this land, Eretz Israel, the land of our forefathers. We need nobody's recognition in asserting this inalienable right. And for this inalienable right, which has been sanctified in Jewish blood from generation to generation, we have paid a price unexampled in the annals of nations. Mr. Speaker, from the Knesset of Israel, I say to the world, our very existence per se is our right to exist!

Existence is a fact. Israel has majority diplomatic recognition as a sovereign state.

[Tribesman]

Existence is a fact. Israel has majority diplomatic recognition as a sovereign state.

For a soveriegn State to be properly recognised it needs defined borders ? Where are Israels ?
What is the legal basis for the foundation of Israel ?

Well done , in a topic where we are now discussing terrorists claims about their right to form their state as they see fit you quote a terrorist talking about his right to form a state as he sees fit .

[Fragony]

Open letter to the world

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQSf...=1&tbl_archief

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

For a soveriegn State to be properly recognised it needs defined borders ? Where are Israels ?

Israel has de facto recognition from the majority of states in the world.

[Tribesman]

Bloody hell Frag you really have surpassed yourself this time .

My objective is to show who meir kahane was and what he said.

Kahane ??????
the Israelis and Americans both called him a terrorist nut .

[Tribesman]

Israel has de facto recognition from the majority of states in the world.

Interesting .
Palestine has recognition from the majority of states on the world .
The Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic has de facto recognition of the Free Zone .
Taiwan is only recognised by 23 countries .
Do you see where the legality aspect of this comes in yet ?

[Fragony]

Bloody hell Frag you really have surpassed yourself this time .


Kahane ??????
the Israelis and Americans both called him a terrorist nut .

He makes it pretty clear he's just an ordinary Israeli citizin and that is his perspective, rockets-in-the face-just-suck-it-up technically speaking, or does that logic only comes into full effect when it are non-jews, you seem to be so particulary thoughtfull of the motivations of the arabs even when they are vowing to kill all jews, which is of course a reaction to the reaction of how was reacted upon a reaction of how was reacted on a reaction, or however you want to justify the need to completely whipe out a people and their country for whatever rightious cause that makes your birthday-party's somewhat interesting.

[KarlXII]

this sums it up pretty well:

Replace the Israeli rifle with a grenade.

Babies!

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Replace the Israeli rifle with a grenade.

Babies!

And the Palestinian one with a suicide vest...

[Tribesman]

He makes it pretty clear he's just an ordinary Israeli citizin and that is his perspective

Yeah Kahane was just an ordinary Israeli citizen too , before that he was just an ordinary american citizen , both countries call him a racist terrorist , what more perspective on his view do you need ?

So in his perspective a statement like this is right ...
Western democracy has to be ruled out. For me that's cut and dried: there's no question of setting up democracy in Israel, because democracy means equal rights for all, irrespective of racial or religious origins
Nice eh ?
I suppose he also agrees from his perspective that Israel includes all the UN allocated territory , all the occupied territory , large parts of Jordan Syria Iraq Lebanon and North Egypt and all non jews must be either expelled or killed .

Like I said , you really have surpassed yourself Frag .

[KarlXII]

And the Palestinian one with a suicide vest...

Indeed.

[Fragony]

Yeah Kahane was just an ordinary Israeli citizen too , before that he was just an ordinary american citizen , both countries call him a racist terrorist , what more perspective on his view do you need ?

So in his perspective a statement like this is right ...
Western democracy has to be ruled out. For me that's cut and dried: there's no question of setting up democracy in Israel, because democracy means equal rights for all, irrespective of racial or religious origins
Nice eh ?
I suppose he also agrees from his perspective that Israel includes all the UN allocated territory , all the occupied territory , large parts of Jordan Syria Iraq Lebanon and North Egypt and all non jews must be either expelled or killed .

Like I said , you really have surpassed yourself Frag .

No not nice, but understandable, I do not know this man but I have no objections about what is said in that video, so you do?

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Bopa:

Please take your attitude and shelve it. I noted to Griz that the doctrine of "by conquest" HAD -- please note the tense -- a general "acceptance" in international relations. I was suggesting that to dismiss the concept entirely was therefore innacurate. I was careful to note that most nations have repudiated this notion (by virtue of their membership in the UN if nought else).

In short, I was bringing up an analytical point that bears relevance to the larger issue. If you had paused in your vitriolic response, you might have noted that:

1) as Israel draws its legitimacy from the 1947 UN decision to establish that state, Israel is a product of the organization whereby most nations have forsworn conquest but has itself -- at least twice (1948 and 1967) -- acquired territory in conflict and
2) Israel is currently in possession of territories that were set aside for an arab state in the 1947 UN decision;

you could thereby make an argument that Israel de-legitimated itself from the outset. Of course, you chose more a more "strident" response instead.


On your other "barb:"

You have a right to consider the USA to be an imperialist nation -- you're entitled to hold whatever opinions you wish.

I, myself, DREAM of a world for me and for my children in which the United States, with its current outlook on the world, is the MOST imperialist/aggressive state out there.

Israel our proxy? Chat with Krook if you want to hear about life as a "proxy" hewing wood and hauling water for someone else's agenda. Ally, yes. Take the opportunity to test out weapons systems with live fire, yes. Beg Mossad for humint we were dumb enough to discard or not develop in the region, yes. But a proxy? Don't think so.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

No not nice, but understandable, I do not know this man but I have no objections about what is said in that video, so you do?

Frag:

Didn't see the particular vid in question, but Kahane has a reputation that is as extremist/reactionary as Wilders, if not more so. The Knesset banned his entire party as racists and the USA did formally condem the Kahane Chai organization as a terrorist organization.

Presuming Kahane is a "typical" voice for Israel would be akin to labeling OBL a "typical" voice for Islam.

[rasoforos]

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/10/wo...ef=todayspaper

Make sure they are civilians, round em up, bomb em, don't go and help them...

Now why didn't the Israeli Army not even go to help or take the wounded/dead away? Why did they even stop the Red Cross for doing so?

Even if they thought there were terrorists inside they would move in to engage or to ensure the target is neutralized. You don't just sit next to a potentially hostile building just because you bombed it.

It seems to me that the intention here was to just make people suffer. Make sure many of them die slowly and in pain. Do people really rejoice by such actions? Noone wonders who authorizes such actions?

[Husar]

Did your country sign a treaty giving Prussia away ?


Did your country sign a treaty giving that land away ?

They were signed under pressure. Documents signed under pressure are illegal.

There, now give us all that land back please or I'll start firing homemade LEGO rockets into Poland.

Concerning the nice picture with the babies, there are two problems I have with it:
1) the israeli soldiers have a tendency to fire anyway
2) I guess the assault rifles can easily penetrate the first target

so all four of the depicted persons will be dead in the end and what's the whole point of the picture now?
Except of course proving the point that the whole thing is a bloody mess and both sides are being idiots.

[Fragony]

as extremist/reactionary as Wilders

[Dâriûsh]

this sums it up pretty well:

Yes, hilarious "hooahguy" how the Palestinian militants are depicted as fighting among the civilian population.

Well duh smart guy, did you know that they live there as well? There in the overcrowded Gaza Strip? Where else can the Palestinians fight the Israeli invaders? North Dakota?

[Fragony]

[Tribesman]

They were signed under pressure. Documents signed under pressure are illegal.

So that means Britain can have America back as it was under pressure when it signed the Paris treaty

So does that mean that Egypts and Jordans peace deals with Israel are illegal ?
If Hamas or Israel signs a ceasefire is that illegal ?

No not nice, but understandable, I do not know this man but I have no objections about what is said in that video, so you do?

Yes plenty of objections , because it is the usual hate filled crap from Kahane .

[Ser Clegane]

I think a lot of us are currently asking the question of the guy on the left side - unfortunately there are a lot of doubts that the people in charge are asking the same questions.

Currently this "caricature" seems somewhat meaningless... (but I guess everybody can scribble a little picture on paper and just make stuff up)

[rory_20_uk]

Only error there: not "shoot" but "kill them all"

[Husar]

So that means Britain can have America back as it was under pressure when it signed the Paris treaty

Yes, about time, America needs CCTVs and a gun ban.

So does that mean that Egypts and Jordans peace deals with Israel are illegal ?
If Hamas or Israel signs a ceasefire is that illegal ?

That depends on who proposed them, if the weaker party did then they are legal because the stronger party was not under pressure signing them. IIRC the idea to give away Prussia did not exactly come from the german side they just had no way to say no to it and would have signed almost anything at the time.

[Fragony]

Only error there: not "shoot" but "kill them all"

Nownow how would you know, everybody knows Israel doesn't allow any journalists

[Hax]

everybody knows Israel doesn't allow any journalists

Nor food or humanitarian aid.

[Fragony]

Nor food or humanitarian aid.

yeah terrible. Maybe they should have used the fertiliser to grow crops instead of making explosives, just an idea. But alas they didn't and now they cry, maybe their arab brothers can spare some they care so very, very deeply after all. Oh silly me they prefer them poor and hungry makes for better pictures.

[Hax]

Fragony, arguing with someone like you is pointless. For some reason, the idea of peace just doesn't enter your mind. I don't know whatever happened that you hate the Palestinians so much, but the way you regard Arabs and Muslims as second-range humans sickens me.

[Fragony]

Fragony, arguing with someone like you is pointless. For some reason, the idea of peace just doesn't enter your mind. I don't know whatever happened that you hate the Palestinians so much, but the way you regard Arabs and Muslims as second-range humans sickens me.

Yeah how very terrible of me that I, unlike some, am not particulary sympathatic towards a internationaly recognised terrorist-organisation who wants to whipe out an entire country and it's people. Not particulary fond of the palestinians no, and the palestinians that don't support Hamas are either dead, have fled, or are too terrified to speak up by now. If you burn your you will have to sit on the blisters as we say here in Holland.

[rory_20_uk]

Fled. Fled where? The borders are sealed! And as another party was democratically elected they have to leave all their possessions and try to get through an Israeli cordon. Yeah, that'd work

Under 50% voted for Hamas.

Ergo THOUSANDS didn't want Hamas, but have no choice but to stay as they can't leave.

myopic or moronic. Not sure which...

[Fragony]

Fled. Fled where? The borders are sealed! And as another party was democratically elected they have to leave all their possessions and try to get through an Israeli cordon. Yeah, that'd work

Under 50% voted for Hamas.

Ergo THOUSANDS didn't want Hamas, but have no choice but to stay as they can't leave.

myopic or moronic. Not sure which...

Hence too terrified to speak up, do you know any palestinians? Hamas is one sick organisation they aren't the poor and deprived organised, Hamas is the scum of the earth and it should be dead, gone, finito.