Some joyous tidings from Israel

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Can't find anything of Hamas killing civilians? No?

WARNING: Some members may be disturbed by these images.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Hamas murdering innocents
Hamas firing rockets from densely populated areas
Using human shields
Part One: Hamas and Civilians

[Fragony]

Dear god Tribes. And dear god Bopa. You just don't want Hamas to be any less then the democratically elected government, the decision has been made. Hamas has killed thousands of people but it just doesn't matter if it isn't Israel that's doing it, I showed Bopa a video with over 30 unarmed people being mowed down before an already bullet torn wall but like water from a duck it just slides off 'this isn't what we agreed upon, all I see is mass executions of fatah'.

[Tribesman]

Dear god Tribes. And dear god Bopa. You just don't want Hamas to be any less then the democratically elected government, the decision has been made.

You still don't get it do ya Frag .
Some parts of Hamas are very nasty , some parts of Fahah are very nasty , some parts of the Israeli government and army are very nasty , but all you go on about is "its Hamas" .
Thats why its accurate to call you narrowminded . You are the one picking a particular bunch of nasty people and expressing support for them . Though to be honest you have picked out several groups of nasty people to express support for during this topic
An example being ....all I see is mass executions of fatah'.
You see what you want to see but don't actually look
Take the videos Mars posted as an example , the one of Hamas beating the fatah protesters , that protest was filmed the day after fatah was shooting hamas protesters

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Take the videos Mars posted as an example , the one of Hamas beating the fatah protesters , that protest was filmed the day after fatah was shooting hamas protesters

Oh, congratulations at avoiding the one of them shooting and beating wedding guests to death.

[Proletariat]

Why do Euros care so much?

[Strike For The South]

Why do Euros care so much?

It makes them feel important and enlightened. Really why they care about everything.

[Incongruous]

Whats up Bopa couldn't you find videos of Fatah executing Hamas members in Gaza and the west bank during the little Palestinian civil war ?
:

Tbh I didn't really go that far into it, despite my wish to join the army I found those videos a little upsetting, I just couldn't watch another video of men being knlt down and shot in the head, even if they were some fairly horrible sorts.

I must admit Mars I had not really used my initiative when looking up vids, it just never crossed my mind to search executions, or that such videos were on the internet, I was shocked.

[Incongruous]

Actually Mars, what the heck is this?

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e42_1231416294

That video seems like a load of bull, with a bit of gold somehwere, but basically it seems that most of the truth has been rid of.

Perhaps Hamas would do better if the the Israelis and the West did not try to deliegitimise their democratic election? Blockade the Gaza strip into starvation? Stopped destroying government biuldings?

[Incongruous]

Why do Euros care so much?

Americans seem to care more, at least their checkbook does...

[Shaka_Khan]

Why do Euros care so much?

Why do you care about Iraq?

[seireikhaan]

Why do you care about Iraq?

Don't even pretend the amount invested by Europe in Israel compares to the amount the US leadership invested in Iraq. WE did not invade Iraq- "elected"(being that Bush did not win the popular vote) leadership took us into the war. Now we've got our future tied to it. Is Europe(that is, European peoples) invested in the future of Israel in such a way?

[Shaka_Khan]

Don't even pretend the amount invested by Europe in Israel compares to the amount the US leadership invested in Iraq. WE did not invade Iraq- "elected"(being that Bush did not win the popular vote) leadership took us into the war. Now we've got our future tied to it. Is Europe(that is, European peoples) invested in the future of Israel in such a way?

I didn't ask you. I asked the person who cared about "let's free Iraq" for a long time. I know that many Americans had the same opinion before the war. Either that or they thought Iraq had something to do with 9/11.

Anyway, what's wrong with talking about the Middle East? It's not as if we're having a fetish. Don't you think we wouldn't be having an Iraqi problem if people were more informative of Iraq?

[seireikhaan]

I didn't ask you. I asked the person who cared about "let's free Iraq" for a long time. I know that many Americans had the same opinion before the war. Either that or they thought Iraq had something to do with 9/11.

Anyway, what's wrong with talking about the Middle East?












I'm pretending to be European now.

First- How should I know where you're from when you hide your location?

Second- Perhaps those Americans believed the government when they stated there were WMDs in the possession of a guy like Hussein? I'm sure for enough Americans, that very thought, in the post-9/11 atmosphere was positively terrifying given the guy used chemical weapons on his own people.

Third- I believe the overall point was that it gets tiresome to see Euros belittling each over in divisive debate over something in which they've far less invested(except, perhaps, the UK) than the US. It seems, to an outsider, an exercise in pointlessness. Especially when no side is exactly a bunch of angels.

[Shaka_Khan]

Second- Perhaps those Americans believed the government when they stated there were WMDs in the possession of a guy like Hussein? I'm sure for enough Americans, that very thought, in the post-9/11 atmosphere was positively terrifying given the guy used chemical weapons on his own people.

...which shows how concerned about Iraq the Americans were. They considered Iraq as the same threat level as the 9/11ers and thus intervened. The people in this forum weren't even talking about intervening on Palestine or Israel.

This is why people should be more interested in what goes on outside their country instead of following whatever the top man says. Much of the world outside the US were following the IAEA.

Third- I believe the overall point was that it gets tiresome to see Euros belittling each over in divisive debate over something in which they've far less invested(except, perhaps, the UK) than the US. It seems, to an outsider, an exercise in pointlessness. Especially when no side is exactly a bunch of angels.

I just hope people will find a way to stop the violence that keeps on repeating. Sometimes I like to talk about the tragedies that I see when I can't do anything else about it.

[seireikhaan]

...which is why people should be more interested in what goes on outside their country instead of following whatever the top man says. Much of the world outside the US were following the IAEA.

Indeed, informed electorates are what should make the base of democracy. However, I think it rather logical that people would listen to the man they elected rather than some man they man a world away, from a psychological perspective.

I just hope people will find a way to stop the violence that keeps on repeating. Sometimes, I like to talk about the tragedies that I see when I can't do anything else about it.

With the exception of a few well done posts by the like of Seamus, "talk" doesn't really describe every single Israel/Palestine thread since the inception of a backroom here. "Talk" would be great. Unfortunately, we tend to get treated to a mix of trolling, defiance, finger pointing, and blind nationalism instead.

[Shaka_Khan]

Indeed, informed electorates are what should make the base of democracy. However, I think it rather logical that people would listen to the man they elected rather than some man they man a world away, from a psychological perspective.

Now they know better.

[seireikhaan]

Now they know better.

One would hope.

[Incongruous]

Third- I believe the overall point was that it gets tiresome to see Euros belittling each over in divisive debate over something in which they've far less invested(except, perhaps, the UK) than the US. It seems, to an outsider, an exercise in pointlessness. Especially when no side is exactly a bunch of angels.

Well, this is the Backroom.

It is kinda for debate...

[seireikhaan]

Well, this is the Backroom.

It is kinda for debate...

This thread is not an example of debate...

[Incongruous]

This thread is not an example of debate...

No, it is a HEATED debate.

[Fragony]

You still don't get it do ya Frag .
Some parts of Hamas are very nasty , some parts of Fahah are very nasty , some parts of the Israeli government and army are very nasty , but all you go on about is "its Hamas" .

It's hamas who keeps firing rockets so yeah it's Hamas.

You must mean this by the way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLqb...eature=related

That happened and yes Hamas militants were shot by Fatah militants.

Why do Euros care so much?

The socialist party calling for intifada in pro-hamas demonstrations with the always snappy 'Hamas Hamas all jews to the gas' makes me somewhat uneasy

[Tribesman]

Oh, congratulations at avoiding the one of them shooting and beating wedding guests to death.

Actually that video was so crap it had me laughing at the commentator , but the second one is even more of a joke , well done Mars .

Why do Euros care so much?

Perhaps because the long running ongoing situation feeds terrorism worldwide which effects nearly everyone .

[Tribesman]

It's hamas who keeps firing rockets so yeah it's Hamas.

No Frag it isn't , recent rockets hitting Israel have been fired by Hamas , Fatah , Islamic Jihad , PRC , PFLP ,PFLP-GC , DFLP and one attack by a group calling itself Badr ...oh and of course the Israeli settler who launched a rocket but sent it the wrong way .
But of course you will read that , get as far as been fired by Hamas , and miraculously become instantly blind .

[Fragony]

No Frag it isn't , recent rockets hitting Israel have been fired by Hamas , Fatah , Islamic Jihad , PRC , PFLP ,PFLP-GC , DFLP and one attack by a group calling itself Badr ...oh and of course the Israeli settler who launched a rocket but sent it the wrong way .
But of course you will read that , get as far as been fired by Hamas , and miraculously become instantly blind .

Bollox, the rockets from Gaza where the Israeli military currently knitting carpets from beards are fired by Hamas, rockets do come from other parts as well, islamic jihad is from the north for example. There are splinter fractions but in Gaza Hamas is the big cheese.

[Incongruous]

Bollox, the rockets from Gaza where the Israeli military currently knitting carpets from beards are fired by Hamas, rockets do come from other parts as well, islamic jihad is from the north for example. There are splinter fractions but in Gaza Hamas is the big cheese.

The north? Where is that? Yorkshire?

[rasoforos]

the Israeli military currently knitting carpets from beards

very civilized...bravo...

[Fragony]

The north? Where is that? Yorkshire?

North would be Libanon. And I don't know how bad things are in Yorkshire.

[Husar]

Americans seem to care more, at least their checkbook does...

Pretty much, even 350$ donated in that facebook group I saw.

[Tribesman]

islamic jihad is from the north for example.

wow . I honestly didn't think you were really that dumb

North would be Libanon

well that clearly takes the trophy for general ignorance
Tell me Frag , do you actually know anything factual about the situation ?
Islamic Jihad terrorists are based in Gaza and the west bank , that is where they attack from . The main split in islamic jihad under which the al-quds brigades fly their banner and rockets is based mainly in Gaza the vast majortiy of their recent attacks have been from Gaza . There are no reports from the IDF or Israeli government that I have seen of Islamic Jihad firing rockets from Lebanon .
Part of the main political leadership is however in exile in the "North" where it has its political offices but that is in Syria not Lebanon .

[tibilicus]

I'm going to say this one more time as some people still fail to see it.

Even if Israel considers its military campaign successful the fact is that as long as it imposes such harsh sanctions on Gaza, hamas or groups similar to it are just going to come back again and again and again. The fact the envoy to the Middle east, our very own former PM and other senior figures in the world choose to openly let Israel go ahead with these blockades and sanctions means no progress will ever be made. The only hope is that maybe the Obama administration might, unlike the Bush administration not actually veto any proposed UN article on aiding the people of Gaza economically or allowing Israeli blockades to go ahead.

To be honest I don't see any good or bad guys in this, just two groups to stubborn to admit their own faults. Israel needs to accept that it can bomb as many "hamas targets" as possible but until it stops having such a prejudiced and poor approach to its Palestinian neighbours and other Arab country's that these attacks are just going to resurface every 2 years costing both sides in lives and Israel in establishing itself as a respectful democratic nation.