Some joyous tidings from Israel

[Idaho]

Nah Watchman, Fragony is making perfect sense. He supports killing 284 innocent children and injuring around 1500 more because some people kill innocent people. Makes perfect sense.

I think Fragony's position and comments on this thread are very useful. They mirror, and make about as much moral and actual sense as the Israeli governments own position.

"Some rockets have been fired from a place we have repeatedly bombed and blockaded. They have resulted in a handful of deaths. We are therefore going to bomb thousands of men, women and children - killing a thousand or so, to er... win.... er...."

[HoreTore]

I think Fragony's position and comments on this thread are very useful. They mirror, and make about as much moral and actual sense as the Israeli governments own position.

"Some rockets have been fired from a place we have repeatedly bombed and blockaded. They have resulted in a handful of deaths. We are therefore going to bomb thousands of men, women and children - killing a thousand or so, to er... win.... er...."

I loved it when they said "those children were Hamas-children"....

[Idaho]

That makes sense since that is what you are defending, what do you know about hamas? They are religious nutjobs that want sharia law. They kill people at weddings, pour gassoline over them and burn them alive, cut their throats while their children watch, what on earth would convince you that Hamas are really really bad people?

Ignoring the 'facts' of these statement - how is bombing and killing hundreds of men, women and children going to help?

Crime - innocent people get killed and injustices are committed by Hamas

Punishment - kill more innocent people

[Fragony]

Ignoring the 'facts' of these statement:

You are welcome to ignore it, I, much unlike you, know people who are actually from there you wouldn't believe how much of a bunch of filth they are they burn people in front of their children's eyes it's sick as can be.

But go on condemning Israel.

[HoreTore]

You are welcome to ignore it, I, much unlike you, know people who are actually from there you wouldn't believe how much of a bunch of filth they are they burn people in front of their children's eyes it's sick as can be.

Uhm.... You actually think you're the only one with palestinian friends?

I don't know any child-killing woman-beaters though.

EDIT: or that is, I know abusive males, but they're all ethnic norwegians. Don't know any child-killers though, so I guess you've go me there...

[Tribesman]

Fragony just doesn't understand , it is himself that is defending and supporting crazy nuts , and for the most part he is doing it with invented "facts" and completely irrelevant crap .
Actually throughout the topic I get the distinct impression that he hasn't got the faintest idea what he is argueing against or for .
what is really funny is that he says things like what do you know about hamas? when he has repeatedly demonstrated that his knowledge of Hamas or any of the other Palestinian and Israeli groups is so full of holes you could drive a whole fleet of United Nations aid trucks through the gaps .

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Many pages "full of sound and fury...."


Basic issue has not changed. Current Israeli efforts in Gaza are either a) way too much because all they will do is incite more of the same while providing only a temporary attentuation OR b) way too little because using violence as the tool-of-choice here is only likely to be effective if pursued at near-pogromattic levels.

What they ARE doing is more of the same -- another round of the Gaza Gavotte.

I loathe this.



Consider:

You are playing M2TW and have a unit of spear militia facing an enemy unit of town militia on an open grassy plain.

You keep circling, trying to flank them, but all they do is shift front to face you nose to nose.

Once you have done this once or twice, don't you do SOMETHING differently? Or do you always go after the town militia the same way, wondering why they won't stand still and let you flank them?



Why has Israel and the IDF not absorbed this lesson? Is there some Israeli power-cadre or sect that benefits in Israel's internal power-dynamic from promoting violence without resolution? Such factions certainly exist among the Arab/Palestinian groups, so it is easy to see why they always have someone willing to encourage Israel to attack. Why does Israel follow suit so predictably?


And yes, the last paragraph are serious questions, not trolling. Trolling is not my style. I'd particularly like to hear from some of our Israeli members on this issue.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Actually that video was so crap it had me laughing at the commentator , but the second one is even more of a joke , well done Mars .

How is it a joke? Because you don't like the commentary, or because you enjoy Hamas killing wedding guests?

[Watchman]

Why has Israel and the IDF not absorbed this lesson? Is there some Israeli power-cadre or sect that benefits in Israel's internal power-dynamic from promoting violence without resolution? Such factions certainly exist among the Arab/Palestinian groups, so it is easy to see why they always have someone willing to encourage Israel to attack. Why does Israel follow suit so predictably?

The hardline Zionist true-believers ? You know, the "Biblical Israel" crowd that refuses to believe the idea unviable and unrealisable ?

[Idaho]

Basic issue has not changed. Current Israeli efforts in Gaza are either a) way too much because all they will do is incite more of the same while providing only a temporary attentuation OR b) way too little because using violence as the tool-of-choice here is only likely to be effective if pursued at near-pogromattic levels.

What they ARE doing is more of the same -- another round of the Gaza Gavotte.

Well put.

[Tribesman]

Many pages "full of sound and fury...."

Hey come on , its fun . Its reminicent of the old Iraq topics where some people were only able to keep repeating "you love Saddam" as their version of a thoughtful response .

And yes, the last paragraph are serious questions, not trolling.

Really ?
Seamus you know the answer to your questions , such simple questions .

How is it a joke? Because you don't like the commentary, or because you enjoy Hamas killing wedding guests?

You really should check your sources before you take what they say as true , but hey the dramaqueen commentary should have made you wonder at what was being portrayed

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Going to actually give an answer?

[Lemur]

Guys, guys, calm down! Everything's going to be okay! Joe the Plumber is in Israel right now, sorting it all out.

I'll be honest with you. I don't think journalists should be anywhere allowed war (sic). I mean, you guys report where our troops are at. You report what's happening day to day. You make a big deal out of it. I think it's asinine. You know, I liked back in World War I and World War II when you'd go to the theater and you'd see your troops on, you know, the screen and everyone would be real excited and happy for them. Now everyone's got an opinion and wants to downer–and down soldiers. You know, American soldiers or Israeli soldiers.

I think media should be abolished from, uh, you know, reporting. You know, war is hell. And if you're gonna sit there and say, "Well look at this atrocity," well you don't know the whole story behind it half the time, so I think the media should have no business in it.

But wait, it gets better:

JOE: The story here is people are being killed and the media’s slanting it and trying to make it Hamas is, uh, as far as, that Israel’s being bad. Do you believe Israel is bad?

REPORTER: Do I believe it?

JOE: Yeah, do you?!

REPORTER: I’m Israeli, so…

JOE: So answer the question!

REPORTER: No, I don’t think Israel is bad.

JOE: Do you think Israel has every right to protect itself?

REPORTER: Yeah.

[pause]

JOE: You do?!

REPORTER: Yeah.

JOE: Have you said that on air?

REPORTER: I’m just a reporter.

[Hooahguy]

Guys, guys, calm down! Everything's going to be okay! Joe the Plumber is in Israel right now, sorting it all out.

I'll be honest with you. I don't think journalists should be anywhere allowed war (sic). I mean, you guys report where our troops are at. You report what's happening day to day. You make a big deal out of it. I think it's asinine. You know, I liked back in World War I and World War II when you'd go to the theater and you'd see your troops on, you know, the screen and everyone would be real excited and happy for them. Now everyone's got an opinion and wants to downer–and down soldiers. You know, American soldiers or Israeli soldiers.

I think media should be abolished from, uh, you know, reporting. You know, war is hell. And if you're gonna sit there and say, "Well look at this atrocity," well you don't know the whole story behind it half the time, so I think the media should have no business in it.

But wait, it gets better:

JOE: The story here is people are being killed and the media’s slanting it and trying to make it Hamas is, uh, as far as, that Israel’s being bad. Do you believe Israel is bad?

REPORTER: Do I believe it?

JOE: Yeah, do you?!

REPORTER: I’m Israeli, so…

JOE: So answer the question!

REPORTER: No, I don’t think Israel is bad.

JOE: Do you think Israel has every right to protect itself?

REPORTER: Yeah.

[pause]

JOE: You do?!

REPORTER: Yeah.

JOE: Have you said that on air?

REPORTER: I’m just a reporter.

joe..... what have you done....

[Watchman]

...
...wow. The dude has a future career as a stand-up comedian.

[Furunculus]

Hey come on , its fun . Its reminicent of the old Iraq topics where some people were only able to keep repeating "you love Saddam" as their version of a thoughtful response .

i dunno, i just got the impression that most people had never actually lived in a dictatorship, and had no idea on the casual destruction that a despotic regime can have on civil society.

[Tribesman]

Hey Furunculus , just because olmert is the offspring of terrorists and was raised in the revisionist zionist model it isn't fair to call him despotic , its not like he is facing indictment for corruption and decided to start a popular slaughter just to boost his election prospects is it .
Such actions would be tyranny

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

So if Israel attacks Gaza Tribesy to defend herself, it is a "popular slaughter", but if Hamas attack Israel, it's ok?


Sure, If you facing charges, yea, Olmert might be taking advtange of this, but still. If some group is attacking your nation, regardless of if you are going to court, it must be dealt with.

[Hooahguy]

Hey Furunculus , just because olmert is the offspring of terrorists and was raised in the revisionist zionist model it isn't fair to call him despotic , its not like he is facing indictment for corruption and decided to start a popular slaughter just to boost his election prospects is it .
Such actions would be tyranny

funny how you treat your own revisionist views as the truth even though you know its false....

[Tribesman]

So if Israel attacks Gaza Tribesy to defend herself, it is a "popular slaughter", but if Hamas attack Israel, it's ok?

Have a glass of warm milk and go back to sleep , you seem to have had some strange dreams .

funny how you treat your own revisionist views as the truth even though you know its false....

What was false there ?
Were his parents associated with a terrorist group ? yes
As a child was he a member of a terrorist linked revisionist zionist youth movement ? yes
Is he facing indictment for corruption ? yes
Has he followed the usual bread and circuses routine of putting on a big military show to boost his seriously damaged popularity rating in the run up to the election ? yes

Hooah , you have demonstrated throughout the topic how little you know about Israel , you have written piles of tripe that is clearly and easily demonstrated as false , yet you have the front to accuse others of falsehoods when you don't even know what you are talking about .
It would be a nice change if you actually thought just a little bit before you just spouted rubbish .

[Lemur]

...wow. The dude has a future career as a stand-up comedian.

See the man in action. He really is comic relief.

[Incongruous]

If some group is attacking your nation, regardless of if you are going to court, it must be dealt with.

Is that support for the numerous Palestinian resistance movements?
You do realise that all that Israeli land used to be Palestinain land? Until they were attacked by a bunch of machine-gun armed terrorist nutters called zionists? Does this thus mean, that the Palestinains are right to be fighting back against these crazy wackos from Eastern Europe, Central Europe and America?

[Banquo's Ghost]

Well, I am glad I waited until Joe the Plumber turned up, because now we have the definitive analysis of the conflict, all that is left is the bickering.

I'm sad to say that this thread has not exactly made it to the Hall of Backroom Fame and for the last few pages has contained little but snide remarks and rudeness.

No doubt this subject will arise again soon, but when it does I will expect a much higher standard of respect for contributors. It is possible to disagree passionately without trying to humiliate or embarrass.

Please familiarise yourselves with the forum rules again, because next time I shall issue points rather than advice. If I have to control bad behaviour by sending a few to the sin-bin then so be it.

Thanks you for all constructive contributions. In amongst the beastliness, I have learned a lot.