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Thread: Heterogenes = Outsiders?

  1. #1

    Default Heterogenes = Outsiders?

    In my 1.2 AS campaign I have underway now, every time I get a new FM that is of the ethnicity Heterogenes they also get tagged with the Outsider trait. It doesn't matter whether it is from birth, marriage, or adoption; all my new Heterogenes have been labeled as Outsiders, which hardly seems like that would be the case. Is there something wonky with the trigger for the Outsider trait?
    Its not really game-breaking but it is mildly annoying, to say the least.
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  2. #2

    Default Re: Heterogenes = Outsiders?

    I don't have the game definition memorized but it makes sense. Hetero means different. People with some foreign blood could be seen as possible trouble makers. It's not like today where mixed race people are not treated like mutants, well, in most parts of the world at least.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Heterogenes = Outsiders?

    I highly doubt that is the case. The in-game text describes them as basically the most loyal people in the AS with direct links to the King etc etc. Besides, these are family members we're talking about, not a bribed person (which is the only time I've ever seen Outsider pop up). It's equivalent to saying Gens Cornelia are Outsiders for the Romans or Ashkani for the Pahlava.
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  4. #4
    Symbasileus ton Rhomaioktonon Member Maion Maroneios's Avatar
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    Default Re: Heterogenes = Outsiders?

    Heterogenes means 'Of other/different' birth, a word used to describe half-Hellenes. As you may understand, the plain reason of someone being half-Hellen can lead him to be considered an 'outsider' by the pure Hellenic core of the Arche.

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  5. #5
    EB annoying hornet Member bovi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Heterogenes = Outsiders?

    Influenced by his own charisma and relationship with his father (if he is an outsider), in general Heterogenes have 35-95% chance of being outsiders. Racism and contempt for the different are not new concepts. Of course, if you are bothered by having so many outsiders in positions of power, you as a player have the ability to reinforce this segregation and distrust of the different by denying outsiders these positions.

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  6. #6
    Tuba Son Member Subotan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Heterogenes = Outsiders?

    Quote Originally Posted by bovi View Post
    Influenced by his own charisma and relationship with his father (if he is an outsider), in general Heterogenes have 35-95% chance of being outsiders. Racism and contempt for the different are not new concepts. Of course, if you are bothered by having so many outsiders in positions of power, you as a player have the ability to reinforce this segregation and distrust of the different by denying outsiders these positions.
    Awesome way of putting that. Can generals lose their outsiderness?
    Edit: Apparently my Firefox spell checker recognises "Outsiderness" as a word, even though I've never heard it before.
    Last edited by Subotan; 12-30-2008 at 14:38.

  7. #7
    EB annoying hornet Member bovi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Heterogenes = Outsiders?

    No, there is no way to lose this. Possibly there should be, for instance if he gets a very prominent position or does something remarkable in battle. But some people will always hold his origin against him, and he'll typically get positive influence traits in these cases, so I think it's okay.

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  8. #8

    Default Re: Heterogenes = Outsiders?

    Even though the starting AS characters are Heterogenes? And seeing as ts a 100% chance to date, it hardly seems fair. Again, I go by the in-game text and the fact that never, ever, at any other time in any campaign have I gotten a FM with the Outsider trait unless it was a bribed enemy general. I mean, if they are going to be automatically saddled with a -1 influence penalty why not just put that into the ethnicity and not a separate trait. And if they get a -1 then shouldn't all the various non-Hellene ethnicities have worse, much like an Aigyptian ethnicity in the Ptolemaics gets a -2? As far as I am concerned, my point is still valid.
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  9. #9
    Tuba Son Member Subotan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Heterogenes = Outsiders?

    Quote Originally Posted by bovi View Post
    No, there is no way to lose this. Possibly there should be, for instance if he gets a very prominent position or does something remarkable in battle. But some people will always hold his origin against him, and he'll typically get positive influence traits in these cases, so I think it's okay.
    No, I agree with you. I was just wondering, that's all.
    Quote Originally Posted by LordCurlyton View Post
    Even though the starting AS characters are Heterogenes? And seeing as ts a 100% chance to date, it hardly seems fair. Again, I go by the in-game text and the fact that never, ever, at any other time in any campaign have I gotten a FM with the Outsider trait unless it was a bribed enemy general. I mean, if they are going to be automatically saddled with a -1 influence penalty why not just put that into the ethnicity and not a separate trait. And if they get a -1 then shouldn't all the various non-Hellene ethnicities have worse, much like an Aigyptian ethnicity in the Ptolemaics gets a -2? As far as I am concerned, my point is still valid.
    I think Heterogenes should get -1, and that similar conditions be placed on all factions, e.g. Hellenes with the Qarthadasti.

  10. #10
    Guest Aemilius Paulus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Heterogenes = Outsiders?

    Quote Originally Posted by Subotan View Post
    I think Heterogenes should get -1, and that similar conditions be placed on all factions, e.g. Hellenes with the Qarthadasti.
    The Qarthadastim already have the -1 Influence Outsider trait if that is what you mean.

  11. #11
    Tuba Son Member Subotan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Heterogenes = Outsiders?

    No, I mean that when playing as the Qarthadesti, if you have a Hellenic family member, they should recieve -1/2 influence, and that similar standards should be applied to every faction.

  12. #12
    EB annoying hornet Member bovi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Heterogenes = Outsiders?

    Quote Originally Posted by LordCurlyton View Post
    And seeing as ts a 100% chance to date
    No. It's a 100% hit rate in your campaign. The chance is not 100%.

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