Favorite Nomad Faction in EB?

[A Terribly Harmful Name]

The name says it all, this time the test is about the Nomads. I included Pahlava even though they become settled later in the game.

Mine is Pahlava.

[Strategos Alexandros]

Pahlava. Best colour and best looking cataphracts.

[Conqueror]

Without doubt the Saka. Technically the Pahlava have a more interesting unit roster, but that's only due to their reforms, which they only get when they cease being a true nomad faction.

[Moros]

Where's the Gah! option? tsssk.

Anyway it used to be the yuezhi, now it's the saka. Their more unique and I find them most interesting as I know little or nothing about them.

[gamegeek2]

Saka, I have too much personal experience with them (see below)

[antisocialmunky]

Pahlava. Best colour and best looking cataphracts.

Baktrian Catanks look better.

[Ebikiyo of Kophen]

Yes, lion masks do look Kewl don't they?

As for me, the Sauromatae, simply becasue they are, and will always be, a Ancient Russia

[Moros]

EBII has another great nomad faction though. I think that's going to be my new favourite.

[Mediolanicus]

EBII has another great nomad faction though. I think that's going to be my new favourite.

You teaser...

I chose the Sauros just because that was my first thought. But I like all three of them so I don't really have a reason why...

[A Terribly Harmful Name]

If there's another Nomad faction it will probably be the Scythians or someone related to Cimmerian Bosphorus, so...

[The Fuzz]

I voted Saka, but I really like Pahlava upon reflection - they always annoy the Seleukids enough so that my Baktria can breathe.

[Moros]

If there's another Nomad faction it will probably be the Scythians or someone related to Cimmerian Bosphorus, so...

Not even close to the Russian steppes my freind. .

Really in Need of Occultus signatures.

[Mediolanicus]

It's not the Yuezhi because there will be no emerging factions...
Could it be the Kamboja/Asvakas? An Iranian people in what is now Afghanistan, that fought with Alexander's armies?

They did migrate into India during the latter half of the EB time period.

Whatever it may be, wouldn't another Steppe faction make it awfully crowed there with Baktria, Saka, Pahlava (and Seleucids).

[Subotan]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...-Hem_323bc.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...-Hem_200bc.jpg

Hmm... I wonder who it could be.
No...it couldn't be...But of course! The Arctic Marine Mammal Hunter Empire!

[A Terribly Harmful Name]

Not even close to the Russian steppes my freind. .

Really in Need of Occultus signatures.

Bah that's just misinformation .

[theoldbelgian]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...-Hem_323bc.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...-Hem_200bc.jpg

Hmm... I wonder who it could be.
No...it couldn't be...But of course! The Arctic Marine Mammal Hunter Empire!

do my eyes play tricks on me or are there really iberians in the caucasus at 200 bc :D
otherwise great map man

[desert]

Those are the Georgians, aka the city Kartli, north of Armavir (in EB terms).

EDIT: Hell yeah! I broke the Saka-Pahlava tie!

[Artorius Maximus]

My favourite nomadic faction is Saka Rauka because of their unique culture, history, units, and infrastructure. Weren't they the farthest east Scythian tribes, or were those the Yuezhi?

Also, in that map posted by Subotan, who are the Ko-kun tribe? Is there a way to represent them in Europa Barbarorum as maybe a unit or two? I don't remember seeing a reference to them in EB, but were they Iranian or Turkic in origin?

[MerlinusCDXX]

Artorius Maximus, yeah, the Saka-Rauka are the easternmost branch of the "Royal Skythians", though Skythian was a name seemingly used by both Greeks and Persians to refer to any steppe horse-archer tribe in a generic sense, i.e. the horsearcher rabble. The Yuezhi were also known as the Tokharians by the Greeks, I think that they may come from the same (very) early Indo-European origins as the "Skythian" tribes, but developed independently on the Eastern side of the Pamirs/Tarim Basin. It's interesting that the Baktrian Greeks refer to them as "Tokharians" and not "Skythians" as Greeks have done with other steppe tribes, so it makes me think that there were signifigant differences between the Yuezhi and the Saka/ other Skythians. I've heard a bit about Tokharian being the IE language that was spoken the furthest east. I just took a look at that map, looks like the Ko-kun tribe may be an early Proto-Turkic tribe, since they are not marked off as Iranic. There's probably not a whole lot of evidence to create a unit for them though.

On second thought, looking at that map again, the Ko-kun, along with the Hsin-li are so centrally located between the Ugrian tribes, the Siberian hunter gatherers, the Iranian nomad tribes, and signifigantly West of the candidates for *Proto-Turkic tribes* that they could have originated from any of the above, since the steppe is big and wide open. I'm betting that there just isn't a whole lot of evidence to say for sure what their deal was.



*(Xiong-nu-thought to be the ancestors of Attila's Huns by some historians, the Yenesei Kyrgiz- there were later tribes of Kyrgiz that were thought to be of Turkic origin, and a tribe called the Hun-yu, don't know anything about them, but their name sounds similar enough to both the Xiong-nu and the later "Hun" that there may be a connection)*

[Subotan]

do my eyes play tricks on me or are there really iberians in the caucasus at 200 bc :D
otherwise great map man

Thanks, even though I didn't make it I'm also surprised that nobody mentioned the fact that Albania had migrated from Epeiros to Azerbaijan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasian_Iberia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasian_Albania
Stuff like that isn't uncommon, usually because lazy Romans named two separate countries "Mountain Land" or something.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galicia_(Spain)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galicia_(Central_Europe)

Also, in that map posted by Subotan, who are the Ko-kun tribe? Is there a way to represent them in Europa Barbarorum as maybe a unit or two? I don't remember seeing a reference to them in EB, but were they Iranian or Turkic in origin?

No idea. *Googles*
Right, I found a girl from Tennessee on Myspace, a Japanese Animé, and something to do with Coca-Cola and a Chinese Pharmaceutical company... But nothing about any Iranian/Turkic Nomads.

*(Xiong-nu-thought to be the ancestors of Attila's Huns by some historians, the Yenesei Kyrgiz- there were later tribes of Kyrgiz that were thought to be of Turkic origin, and a tribe called the Hun-yu, don't know anything about them, but their name sounds similar enough to both the Xiong-nu and the later "Hun" that there may be a connection)*

I'm pretty convinced by that hypothesis. The Xiognu were royal pains in the ass for the Chinese, and they easily had the resources to expand to the West, either voluntarily or because of population pressure.

Edit: Here's a map for 300BC
http://worldhistorymaps.info/images/East-Hem_300bc.jpg

Next new Nomad faction...Hm. Garamantes? Aww c'mon, please tell us! Will you say we've got it right if we guess it?

[Dayve]

I'm surprised the Pahlava hasn't got substantially more votes, i expected it to be a landslide in their favour.

They're definitely my favourite, there's just something i like about the way they were nomads, conquered the Seleukid territories, saw the ways of settled life, liked it, stayed, adapted, then carved out an empire of their own.

Oh and the combined poll results right now add up to 100.001%. HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE!?

[Conqueror]

Note that Moros used the term nomad faction, not steppe faction. Could it be that he was talking about... Numidians?

[MerlinusCDXX]

...


I'm pretty convinced by that hypothesis. The Xiognu were royal pains in the ass for the Chinese, and they easily had the resources to expand to the West, either voluntarily or because of population pressure.

I actually agree with that statement, but I'm very careful not to post anything here as a statement of fact unless I have multiple verifiable academic sources to back me up. I just posted the hypothesis as it is put forth, and there are historians who disagree with it, so I wrote some instead of many or most, since I don't know who leans in which direction.

[Subotan]

Aha, a real Historian I see? Awesome.

[MeinPanzer]

Artorius Maximus, yeah, the Saka-Rauka are the easternmost branch of the "Royal Skythians", though Skythian was a name seemingly used by both Greeks and Persians to refer to any steppe horse-archer tribe in a generic sense, i.e. the horsearcher rabble.

"Royal Scythians" is a term used to describe the classic Scythians of the northern Black Sea littoral during the 4th-3rd c. BC and not the Saka.

[The Persian Cataphract]

In a weird sense, you are actually both right. The Royal Scythians proper in the Classical age would refer to the tribe in the northern Black Sea littoral as MeinPanzer mentioned; these were referred to as the "Scythians beyond the Sea" in Achaemenid nomenclature. At the same time, the Sacaeraucae/Sakaraukoi according to the likes of J. Harmatta denotes their linguistic emphasis on "lordliness", and posits "The Lordly Scythians", which is comparable to the western counterpart, the later Roxolani, or Raukhsh-Alanna, which roughly means "The Brilliant Aryans". Observe the similarities of Rauka/Rauksha/Raukoi/Roxolanioi. Interestingly, the precursors of the Roxolani had supplanted the previous Royal Scythians both in matter of geographical position and role of status before this entity attained its definitive distinction from the Legae, Siracae, Iazyges and the Aorsi/Alans/Yancai (?). From Old-Persian and Sanskrit Khshathrapa/Ksatriya/Rokhshanna and even the royal title in Persianate cultures, Shah, which is believed to be derived partly from previous Akkadian epithets of royalty (Sha-), we find many cognates.

So in a sense, they are actually both "royal" tribes, but separated from each other. I would therefore rather propagate for a distinction of the Royal Scythians and the Royal Sacae in order to lessen any confusion.

[MerlinusCDXX]

TPC, thanks for shedding some light on the subject. I had a feeling that something was missing in what I had posted, but I couldn't quite nail it down. I was hoping that someone with more expertise on the subject than myself would correct any misconceptions that I had.

[Iskander 3.1]

What about Saharan nomads??? That's my guess...

[Cute Wolf]

I choose Phalavan because they CAN BECOME SETTLED....... and get benefits of more civilized units...

[keravnos]

They did migrate into India during the latter half of the EB time period.

Some people, me included, think that this has A LOT to do with the establishment of the IndoGreek Kingdom. They invaded there as part of the IndoGreek Armies and they were awarded lands to settle along with their families. They are mentioned as part of the army which attacked(along with Yavanas=IndoGreeks at that time, later every NW invader of India) and seized Mothura (an Indian city in the SE of New Delhi).