Cathar?
Cathar?
#Winstontoostrong
#Montytoostronger
Learn something new every day.
I would point out that I don't believe in the New Testament either, though.![]()
#Winstontoostrong
#Montytoostronger
this is the book I do my best to live by.![]()
Last edited by Ronin; 01-05-2009 at 12:09. Reason: correct hotlink situation
"If given the choice to be the shepherd or the sheep... be the wolf"
-Josh Homme
"That's the difference between me and the rest of the world! Happiness isn't good enough for me! I demand euphoria!"
- Calvin
And the moral of the story is:
Trust not in God for He will screw you over for a £5 bet with the Devil.
He also thinks it's a great laugh to kill your children as long as you can have more in the future.
OT has a story containing a blood thirsty arrogant god... well theres a turn up for the books eh....
Remind me about this story next time someone mentions islam being an evil religion cos quran say this or that....
In remembrance of our great Admin Tosa Inu, A tireless worker with the patience of a saint. As long as I live I will not forget you. Thank you for everything!
Theres a much better one in the OT. I cant remember where exactly but basically a man gives up his daughter (Was she his daughter or just a house guest?) to a angry crowd outside his door so they can rape her. I could be off on a detail but im pretty syre thats basically it.
Lot gives his 2 daughters to be raped by the mob in Sodom (or was it Gomorrah?) to stop them from raping 2 male angels in human form......what´s the moral here?...rape is better to happen to a woman than to a man?....that´s a little sexist to say the least.....God also kills Lot´s wife simply because he takes a look back at the town as they are leaving (what a great guy!)...and then comes the incest part.....it´s like Old Testament 90210!!!
There is an impressively similar story in chapter 19 of the Book of Judges (where they so desperate for ideas that they had to copy themselfs???).....a priest is traveling with his concubine and they are taken in by a good man and his daughter...once again the mob of the town come around the good man´s house and demand that the priest be given to them so they could get frisky with him......
the "good man" gives up his own daughter and the concubine of the priest to assuage the mob...
Judges 19:24
once again....enjoy yourselfs by raping and humiliating my daughter and this innocent woman...but leave my male guest alone.Behold, here is my daughter a maiden, and his concubine; them I will bring out now, and humble ye them, and do with them what seemeth good unto you: but unto this man do not so vile a thing.
one has to wonder why would anyone would want to place his hand on such a book when swearing an oath.....
"If given the choice to be the shepherd or the sheep... be the wolf"
-Josh Homme
"That's the difference between me and the rest of the world! Happiness isn't good enough for me! I demand euphoria!"
- Calvin
You really must try harder. If you took the time to read the bible instead of cherry picking quotes you would realize that Judges 19 is a culmanation of the Isrealites turning there back on God, and that giving his concubine is a very pagan thing to do. So even though he is a godly man in apperance in his soul he has mad peace with the pagan way of doing things.
Of course God commands none of this.
I dont have problems with atheists or agnostics or even people who try to disporve the bible. Just dont come at me with the weaksuace stuff in this thread. Have a clear understanding of what Christians believe and then argue with me. This whole "A bad thing happend so God is unpossible" is a tired song and dance.
There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford
My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.
I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.
Last edited by Ronin; 01-06-2009 at 02:43.
"If given the choice to be the shepherd or the sheep... be the wolf"
-Josh Homme
"That's the difference between me and the rest of the world! Happiness isn't good enough for me! I demand euphoria!"
- Calvin
Have a clear understanding of what Christians believe and then argue with me.
I don't believe christians follow (or most) some of the dodgier stuff in the OT, my point about criticising it being there is part of my questioning of the validity of the bible and possibly the organised religion of christianity, i don't judge the followers of the religion by these things as they are seperate (as i will have to vehemently argue when the latest mistranslation of the qoran is mentioned)
In remembrance of our great Admin Tosa Inu, A tireless worker with the patience of a saint. As long as I live I will not forget you. Thank you for everything!
It really didn't matter much; his wife became a pillar of salt upon disobeying the order to not look back (literally) after fleeing the city.Originally Posted by Ronin
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Once agian the Isrealites have turned there back and fallen into sin. God said he would spare the city if he could find just 10 rightoues men.
Lot offers up his duaghters to be hospitable
His wife is killed because she disobeyed God directly.
Contary to popular belif dying is not the worst thing that happens to you.
There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford
My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.
I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.
so you accept the view that the bible describes the man that offered his daughters up to the mob as a righteous man?
I am simply stating that a book that makes such value judgments is hardly the book one should wish to live one's life by.
Agreed....there is always day time television....*shudder*
Last edited by Ronin; 01-06-2009 at 11:57.
"If given the choice to be the shepherd or the sheep... be the wolf"
-Josh Homme
"That's the difference between me and the rest of the world! Happiness isn't good enough for me! I demand euphoria!"
- Calvin
What some people forget is that when your children die early they go to heaven earlier, which is a good thing, death for a christian should be nothing to be afraid of, Paul himself was looking forward to it because he knew he would go to heaven and be closer to God.
It's only bad for those left behind who will miss the dead persons.
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"Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu
Even if you only believed that the message conveyed in the Bible is divinely inspired, it is clear that the stories of the OT should not be taken as telling us how to act nowadays. The whole OT is the story of God guiding Israel out of iniquity, step by step. He chose them because they were a 'stiffnecked' people, and yet He reformed them anyway - showing us who's in control. Jesus said himself that he was filling in the gaps, taking people beyond living just by the laws, and acknoweldging their need for forgiveness. Jesus is the example of how to lead a righteous life, not Lot, or Abraham, or Noah.
At the end of the day politics is just trash compared to the Gospel.
He chose them because they were a 'stiffnecked' people, and yet He reformed them anyway - showing us who's in control.
Mass murder and fear, methods used by hitler, stalin and God.
The whole OT is the story of God guiding Israel out of iniquity
Im not sure what you mean by this, but im not really sure it excuses a god of mass murder, i understand the adults may have been sinners (its debatable but im willing to accept for the sake of argument that every adult was full of sin) but you never hold the children accountable for the sins of thier fathers, countries battered by a terrible enemy (WW2) treated them far better than this God of the old testament did, i can only summise that winston churchill, truman and clement ? (unsure on french pm) are more forgiving and merciful than God...
Which is why atheism isn't such an unhappy prospect, whats better nothing or something big powerful and vengeful...
. Jesus is the example of how to lead a righteous life
I would agree there, but other than the Cathar's how do christians justify the vengeful god of the OT, and then how he suddenly turns into a nice god in the NT, when you add in the concept of god being perfect it just really doesn't add up to me.... not that this is an attack on christian beliefs i am just curious how you rationalise the whole thing...
Last edited by LittleGrizzly; 01-06-2009 at 12:46.
In remembrance of our great Admin Tosa Inu, A tireless worker with the patience of a saint. As long as I live I will not forget you. Thank you for everything!
There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford
My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.
I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.
In spoilers, as it's mostly me babbling to myself about the stories of the Bible. No response is required.
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
#Winstontoostrong
#Montytoostronger
I didn't say the maniac is doing you a favour, he is doing your children a favour, he's only doing you a favour when he cuts your intestines out and hangs them on a line to dry while you can still watch the spectacle. It's not that hard to understand, or is it?
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"Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu
We are effectively one step away from murdering our children ourselves to ensure they get into heaven.
It makes sense... just be sure to baptize them first before you drown them in the... never mind, kills two birds with one stone.
#Winstontoostrong
#Montytoostronger
There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford
My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.
I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.
the great late George Carlin caught this kind of dichotomy perfectly
Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time!
But He loves you. He loves you, and He needs money!
"If given the choice to be the shepherd or the sheep... be the wolf"
-Josh Homme
"That's the difference between me and the rest of the world! Happiness isn't good enough for me! I demand euphoria!"
- Calvin
There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford
My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.
I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.
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