The Scourge of Ephesus [Concluded]

[seireikhaan]

It's a first-round lynch. I'm not sure of your case against me in this round, but my reasons for not voting Reenk have already been explained above. I was considering shifting my vote to a third party (not TC or Reenk) for a while, since I never intended TC to get lynched, but after his "aggravation" post I decided to leave it on him.

My case against you is twofold here, and you are missing the boat on what I was arguing. My point is this: you lodged an early, supposedly random vote. You proceed to argue with other players. You then moan and whine and hiss about wanting the round to end. TC rightfully complains about getting railroaded for no reason, and then you blast him for it and claim, after you proclaimed to want the round to end, that you were considering to unvote TC. At some point, you are lying here. Further, the lynching of TinCow means he cannot be exonerated through a night killing. Hence, for a mafioso, the successful lynch of such a good player right at the beginning of the game is a stroke of genius. Tell me, should we ever let you or Seamus or Sigurd or Andres be the victim of a "random" lynch on day one, with little to go on? Of course not, if they are townspeople they are quite helpful. TC is in this same boat. Day one is NOT the time to lynch such skilled players. And I believe you know this just as well as anyone else here. Further, if you hadn't intended to get TC lynched, why did you vote him in the first place?

For the record, I lost track of things in that round. I do recall posting, I believe, and thought I had lodged my vote in that post.

Fair enough, we all make mistakes. Hurricanes, however, do not.

Sigurd wasn't getting lynched that round. At that point, I didn't have my case against him, just a suspicion. If my vote left Quintus then he wouldn't have as much incentive to get on, post, and defend himself (for the benefit of everyone else).

You'll have to explain this further to me. Exactly why do you not go after the one who you deem suspicious, and instead vote a player you claimed was "helping". I am failing to see the logic here.

Note my reasons for voting Sigurd above.

There's a problem, however. Sigurd ACKNOWLEDGED his mistake and declared that he stood corrected here. Yet you still did not recognize this fact. Again, I believe you are intentionally doing your best to take down innocent vets, so as to cast doubt upon any potential suspicion they might lodge towards you.

Protection, not block, how many times do I have to make this clear? If I hide Person Z in the tunnel and Person A sends in orders to kill Person Z that night, there will be narration. If I hide Person A in the tunnel, thus preventing him from doing anything else, there will be no narration.

Again, you're missing the boat on my argument. The point was, there should have at some point been a writeup of a successful block becaus there's been so many kills.

Secondly, there was a narration of a protection in the thread - it just wasn't successful for whatever reason. Again, I refer you to ATPG's murder description.

Indeed there was an old man. However, you'll have to excuse me as I suspend disbelief that you have no idea why it wasn't "successful".

Thirdly, the "COP OUT" bit. Let me guide you through my thought process yesterday. I roll out of bed, groggy and tired. I skim through the thread and see that woad has been killed. I barely got any sleep that night because my roommate snores like a buzz saw. When you're in that state of mind, there isn't much filter between brain and mouth (fingers?). I'm noting regret out loud that Woadsy died when I considered protecting him the prior night. Give me a break.

You woke up at noon?

See reasons for not voting Reenk above.

You mean the part about how you wanted Reenk lynched without having to actually vote him yourself?

~~~~~~~~~~~~

All right, look. khaan, I don't think you're a mafioso, just horribly misguided. I don't want either of us to get lynched this round. BUT. If it comes down to that, I will shift my vote to you because I am more valuable to the town's cause.

Well, undoubtedly, if you are indeed town, you are more valuable than me. I don't think you are town, however.

Lastly, I ask the town: What are your reasons for doubting me? Do you truly doubt my role, question its alignment, and think it's safe to lynch a role blocker (a doctor and role blocker for God's sake!) just out of precaution, or do you do this just because it's me? Just because I am the role blocker, as opposed to someone like glyphz, or Tevash? Think on that, folks. I am pro-town through and through.

Your behavior and voting patterns tell me otherwise.

NO, we don't, but Khaan only bothered to do so when I pushed the issue - it's as if he's not helping the town willingly. He is a veteran mafia player, and yet he willingly lurks when he knows his analysis could have been more helpful in earlier rounds? Something smells...

I repeat. If I am scum, WHY DID I NOT SAVE MY HIDE, INSTEAD LEAVING MY FATE UP TO A COIN FLIP? WHY DID I NOT VOTE SIGURD? Because I'm an expendable townsperson.

[ULC]

Hmph, there is more then one member per mafia, SK, and one person can always be expendable, even among mafioso. First of all, if your partner is still alive, leaving it up for a 50/50 chance is not so bad an idea, especially considering that if you were to vote Sigurd and save yourself, you would not have been able to pounce on GH like you have this round, the hypocrisy of dong so would kill your own arguments.

But since your such a selfless townie, then you wouldn't mind getting killed and continuing to contribute in the follwoing rounds as TC has done, no?

[seireikhaan]

Hmph, there is more then one member per mafia, SK, and one person can always be expendable, even among mafioso. First of all, if your partner is still alive, leaving it up for a 50/50 chance is not so bad an idea, especially considering that if you were to vote Sigurd and save yourself, you would not have been able to pounce on GH like you have this round, the hypocrisy of dong so would kill your own arguments.

But since your such a selfless townie, then you wouldn't mind getting killed and continuing to contribute in the follwoing rounds as TC has done, no?

Except for the bit about how you can't know for sure if a lynched person is innocent.

[GeneralHankerchief]

My case against you is twofold here, and you are missing the boat on what I was arguing. My point is this: you lodged an early, supposedly random vote. You proceed to argue with other players. You then moan and whine and hiss about wanting the round to end. TC rightfully complains about getting railroaded for no reason, and then you blast him for it and claim, after you proclaimed to want the round to end, that you were considering to unvote TC. At some point, you are lying here. Further, the lynching of TinCow means he cannot be exonerated through a night killing. Hence, for a mafioso, the successful lynch of such a good player right at the beginning of the game is a stroke of genius. Tell me, should we ever let you or Seamus or Sigurd or Andres be the victim of a "random" lynch on day one, with little to go on? Of course not, if they are townspeople they are quite helpful. TC is in this same boat. Day one is NOT the time to lynch such skilled players. And I believe you know this just as well as anyone else here. Further, if you hadn't intended to get TC lynched, why did you vote him in the first place?

Okay, say for example you vote for somebody in the first round (this is purely hypothetical, of course, since you didn't vote in the first round). Do you intend for him to be lynched? No, you intend to get the round over with and then move on.

You'll have to explain this further to me. Exactly why do you not go after the one who you deem suspicious, and instead vote a player you claimed was "helping". I am failing to see the logic here.

Because Sigurd wasn't going to get lynched that round, and at that point I had nothing more than a gut feeling against him. I figured my vote would be more useful pressuring people to defend themselves.

There's a problem, however. Sigurd ACKNOWLEDGED his mistake and declared that he stood corrected here. Yet you still did not recognize this fact. Again, I believe you are intentionally doing your best to take down innocent vets, so as to cast doubt upon any potential suspicion they might lodge towards you.

I didn't buy it.

Again, you're missing the boat on my argument. The point was, there should have at some point been a writeup of a successful block becaus there's been so many kills.

I believe what I've been more successful at has been preventing people from going out and killing in the first place rather than actually preventing a kill itself.

Indeed there was an old man. However, you'll have to excuse me as I suspend disbelief that you have no idea why it wasn't "successful".

Oh for crying out loud, how many times do I need to refer you to the writeups? Whenever the old man's been mentioned he's been frazzled and scared. You're going to be served a big helping of crow at the end of this game, my friend.

You woke up at noon?

It was the weekend, and I'm at school. Of course I woke up late.

You mean the part about how you wanted Reenk lynched without having to actually vote him yourself?

Do you actually have a case for why that's scummy or are you just going to bring it up offhand like that? If you were in my position you would have done the exact same thing.

[seireikhaan]

Okay, say for example you vote for somebody in the first round (this is purely hypothetical, of course, since you didn't vote in the first round). Do you intend for him to be lynched? No, you intend to get the round over with and then move on.

Again, you ignore my point that TC is NOT the kind of player we want getting railroaded by a first round vote. I do NOT think this was a random vote. You even nominated TinCow in the HOF, stating you "feared" him more than anyone else. And sorry for not voting. I deemed it unimportant at the time due to Golden Rule/Chicago/Rl competing with the first round of a mafia game where an innocent is *almost* always lynched.

Because Sigurd wasn't going to get lynched that round, and at that point I had nothing more than a gut feeling against him. I figured my vote would be more useful pressuring people to defend themselves.

Again, what is the point in pressuring a person you deem to be "helpful" to defend themselves?

I didn't buy it.

You didn't buy Sigurd admitting he was wrong?

I believe what I've been more successful at has been preventing people from going out and killing in the first place rather than actually preventing a kill itself.

And how can you know that for sure?

Oh for crying out loud, how many times do I need to refer you to the writeups? Whenever the old man's been mentioned he's been frazzled and scared.
You're going to be served a big helping of crow at the end of this game, my friend.

It's entirely possible that I'm horribly wrong. Obviously, I do not believe so. I'm judging off of behavior. And your behavior stinks.

It was the weekend, and I'm at school. Of course I woke up late.

It was the weekend, and I'm at school. I still get up at 10:30 at the latest.

Do you actually have a case for why that's scummy or are you just going to bring it up offhand like that? If you were in my position you would have done the exact same thing.

It's scummy because you're trying to set up the lynch of yet another veteran player while trying to not look like you were angling hard for it.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Again, you ignore my point that TC is NOT the kind of player we want getting railroaded by a first round vote. I do NOT think this was a random vote. You even nominated TinCow in the HOF, stating you "feared" him more than anyone else. And sorry for not voting. I deemed it unimportant at the time due to Golden Rule/Chicago/Rl competing with the first round of a mafia game where an innocent is *almost* always lynched.

I voted TC very early on in the round, not expecting him to get railroaded. I was contemplating changing my vote for a while (when I saw the votes on him pile up), but didn't like the way he reacted to the railroading. Thus, my vote stayed.

Again, what is the point in pressuring a person you deem to be "helpful" to defend themselves?

For the benefit of the rest of the town.

You didn't buy Sigurd admitting he was wrong?

It's very easy as a mafioso to attack someone based on false reasoning, get called out on it, and then back off, saying "whoops!". It even makes them look innocent. I've used that trick in the past. So no, I didn't buy it.

And how can you know that for sure?

Note the "I believe" part of my post.

It's scummy because you're trying to set up the lynch of yet another veteran player while trying to not look like you were angling hard for it.

Reenk needed to be taken out for everyone's benefit. You yourself admit this. I feard some sort of beyond-the-grave retribution. Had I been a townie, I would have voted for him. But I'm not, so I didn't.

[seireikhaan]

Reenk needed to be taken out for everyone's benefit. You yourself admit this. I feard some sort of beyond-the-grave retribution. Had I been a townie, I would have voted for him. But I'm not, so I didn't.

Freudian slip?

[GeneralHankerchief]

Yeah, I thought you'd pick that up. Notice I said "not a townie" and not "not pro-town".

[Andres]

Voting concluded.

Stand by for execution.

[ULC]

SK, that was kinda weak, picking on terminology like that. I call vanilla, powerless roles "townies" and those who are pro-town with some power "power roles" myself.

[seireikhaan]

SK, that was kinda weak, picking on terminology like that. I call vanilla, powerless roles "townies" and those who are pro-town with some power "power roles" myself.

WHAT IS YOUR DEAL AGAINST ME?

[Andres]

The Scourge of Ephesus - Day 6 - Conclusion



The Odeion - 9.00 pm

The tourists continued their discussions.

Accusations were thrown around, seemingly at random. During the hottest part of the day, discussion grew calmer, only to go crescendo when the day was nearing its' end.

At sunset, the tourists had decided that seireikhaan had been among them for far too long.

"He doesn't talk enough! He must be guilty!"

"Yeah," the other tourists yelled.

seireikhaan stepped forward.

"Ladies and gentlemen... Please, allow me to defend myself."

"Shut up!"

"But, I was assumed guilty because I didn't talk enough and now that I'm starting to talk..."

"BOOO!" Some tourists threw rotten tomatoes.

seireikhaan stood firm and proudly started to talk: "This is highly inappropriate. I am after all a human being and you cannot possibly deny me the right to speak."

He shook his head and continued: "As the late Cicero once said to Catilina: "O tempora, O mores!" Yes, dear tourists, fellow participants in this drama: "O tempora, O mores!" How fitting this is indeed. Fitting for two reasons, mind you! First of all, because we are at this magnificent ancient site. Of course, it is very appropriate to quote famours Romans in this place. Secondly, because this display of rudeness and savageness is indeed reason to exclamate the ancient "O tempora, O mores!", which means..."

"Oh come on now, please shut up!" a tourist who was becoming aggressive said and he punched seireikhaan in the face, breaking his nose and jaw.

seireikhaan was on the ground, trying to get at his feet again, when the aggressive tourist kicked him in the stomach.

"O tempora, O mores!" the old man said, all of the sudden. In his hands he held the silenced gun. "Let us do this the civilised way." His hands shaking he pointed the gun at seireikhaan and fired a shot.

Tiberius of the Drake, who had been sleeping, like he had done for, well about roughly 200 hours, woke up, made a silent "Huh?" sound, looked at the hole in his chest and died instantly.

"You idiot!" the aggressive tourist said. He slapped the old man in the face, grabbed the gun out of his hands and pointed it at seireikhaan. Two popping sounds and a few seconds later, seireikhaan dropped dead on the sand of the Odeion, surrounded by his own blood and brains.

The tourists silently left the scene.

***

Tally:

seireikhaan : 2 (187Beefyz, Chaotix27)

boudica : 1 (Seamus)
GH: 1 ('khaan)
Tiberius : 1 (YLC)
Yoyoma: 1 (Ibn-Khaldun)
Ibn-Khaldun: 1 (Lord Winter)
El Diablo: 1 (GeneralHankerchief)
Abstain: 1 (El Diablo)

Not voting: 6 (boudica, Tiberius, Yoyoma, CountArach, Caius, glyphz)


Alive (13)

boudica
GeneralHankerchief

Tiberius of the Drake
187Beefyz
Chaotix27
YLC
Yoyoma1910
Ibn-Khaldun
Lord Winter
CountArach
Caius
El Diablo
Glyphz
Seamus Fermanagh

Killed (8) :

777Ares777
TheFlax
White_Eyes :D
Reenk Roink
Askthepizzaguy
Quintus.JC
woad&fangs
shlin28


Lynched (6) :

TinCow
Tevashzat
FactionHeir
Jolt
Sigurd
seireikhaan

WoG/Suicide (3):
Rythmic
Ignoramus
Tiberius of the Drake

It's now night. Night will be slightly shorter than usual; +/-23 hours (until 21.30 GMT+1).

PM's please.

[Lord Winter]

We almost need more bandwaggoning. That lynch shouldn't have happened with only two votes.

[seireikhaan]

That was pathetic. 2 votes to lynch a person. Good God, this town is doomed.

Congrats. Buh-bye.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Well, it's pretty much confirmed. The athletic man is dead.

-edit- Not like it matters, but this writeup also demonstrated that I can't be the gun killer. The old guy can't shoot straight.

[TinCow]

GH is the old man. The old man suddenly produced a silenced pistol from nowhere. This does not seem right to me, despite GH's assertions that he can't shoot straight. This seems to me to be either a GH masterminded mafia or a lurker mafia. The problem is that I can't tell which it is yet and town population is rapidly dwindling. An accurate lynch is needed next round or we're pretty much doomed.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Didn't the athletic man have a gun? I think it's just whoever is in charge of the lynch gets one.

[Jolt]

Indeed. This is the sign that GH is mafia. Lynching him is quite crucial for a town win, imo.

[GeneralHankerchief]

You know, I've heard so many suggestions that I'm mafia that I'm starting to believe it myself.

[Reenk Roink]

Don't listen to the melancholy of anyone town, there are still 13 alive. You did a good job by lynching khaan, now get rid of GH now if you want but definitely in the next 2 rounds. Then focus on the leads, and try not to just simply go after lurkers. Think a bit harder.

[GeneralHankerchief]

***ANNOUNCEMENT***

Next round, if you plan to vote for me, I would like a detailed explanation of exactly why you are doing this and a good outline of the reasons why you believe I am scummy. Do not do this and the fury of GeneralHankerchief will come down upon you.

I may be lynched, but I'm also the town's greatest asset and I sure as am not going down without a fight.

[Reenk Roink]

Here is a great reason if you feel lazy town.

That the Mafia leave a pro-town role alive this long boggles the mind. Obviously the flip side is the GH is acting so suspicious that they guess he will be killed.

But why didn't they use to wait approach with me?

[GeneralHankerchief]

Good, let's start ironing this out now.

Obviously the flip side is the GH is acting so suspicious that they guess he will be killed.

"GH is acting suspicious". I hate that phrase. How specifically?

[Reenk Roink]

'Suspicious' was probably a bad choice of words though it applies with some of your behaviors exhaustively outlined by others. Whenever I play as Mafia, the thing I look most for is players who draw a lot of attention and leave them alone. Obviously there are exceptions, I killed Kommodus though he was attracting attention because I thought he would stop playing and not use his method, I killed Sasaki because he called me Wenax and pissed me off.

Anyway, you really can't argue the point about you remaining alive. It's clearly not giving certainty, but is a good argument against you nonetheless (nothing really is ever certain in these games).

[GeneralHankerchief]

'Suspicious' was probably a bad choice of words though it applies with some of your behaviors exhaustively outlined by others.

Okay, so here you admitted you're piggybacking. This is exactly the kind of thing I don't want to see for next round.

Anyway, you really can't argue the point about you remaining alive. It's clearly not giving certainty, but is a good argument against you nonetheless (nothing really is ever certain in these games).

I'm alive because this is exactly what the mafia wanted to happen. They want to discredit me. It's working marvelously.

Or because they're afraid that a botched attack on me (remember, reread my initial role PM) might have potential consequences.

Or because I'm so totally off the mark with my choices that they're content to take the risk of leaving me alive.

[TinCow]

What we need is a detailed look at GH's night actions and the statements of the people who have confirmed them. I remain of the opinion that his role, as presented, seems pro-town. If his night actions hold up under scrutiny, I think GH should not be lynched. Under the current circumstances, lynching a potential pro-town role without solid evidence would be extremelly dumb.

GH, if you'd like to help out, please give me a summary of who you blocked each night. I'll go back through the thread sometime tomorrow and compile all of the other statements and evidence that I can, but it would be useful if I had it all in one post for ease of reference.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Night 1: Block Sigurd and Quintus.
Night 2: Block Reenk and Tevash.
Night 3: Block Seamus and shlin.
Night 4: Block ATPG (failed) and boudica.
Night 5: Block Sigurd and boudica.
Night 6: Block YLC and Beefy.
Night 7: Will reveal upon close of night phase.

[Beefy187]

Here I was.. Just woke up.. reading through the argument and thinking his probably innocent. I find him already lynched

Sorry Khaan

[White_eyes:D]

Here I was.. Just woke up.. reading through the argument and thinking his probably innocent. I find him already lynched

Sorry Khaan

Weird....why do you feel bad you are the.....oops..... *shuts mouth*

[GeneralHankerchief]

Just a heads-up, there's supposedly this big event in DC tomorrow that I'm going to get up early for and check out. No idea when I'll be back.