The Scourge of Ephesus [Concluded]

[ULC]

You could have left the other half of the message out RR, that was a of a much more personal matter that had nothing to do with the game at all. And stop pulling things that consistently make me rethink my position on you - I have enough things that induce headaches.

[Reenk Roink]

You could have left the other half of the message out RR, that was a of a much more personal matter that had nothing to do with the game at all. And stop pulling things that consistently make me rethink my position on you - I have enough things that induce headaches.

Ok my mistake about the second personal part of the PM. I must admit that I actually did not read your PM before this. Just skimmed it.

I do apologize for the personal part.

Also, you are too modest in your personal part anyway and I am happy you are rethinking your position.

[TinCow]

A bit of advice for the town:

1) Never consider anyone to be a proven townie. In the first game, some townies could become mafia in the middle of the game if they were discovered by one of the mafia families. These townies did not know that they could be recruited before then, they thought they were just normal townies. When they were 'flipped' they were given the choice of changing sides or dying, which is no choice at all, especially since being mafia is fun. Thus, people may be legimitately playing as townies early on, and still be true mafia later. On the positive side, there were very few people who could do this.

2) If you find yourself in a day phase with no decent leads to go on, lynch ReenK Roink. If he's telling the truth, he's a neutral role, and they're never good for anyone but themselves. If he's lying (most), he's screwing over the town with his games and it'd be better to lose him than a more producive townie.

3) Don't form townie groups. If you've got actual information or interesting theories, post them publicly. Making info public helps the town. Keeping it private hurts the town. Trust me, I know.

[TevashSzat]

Okay, if we got a detective PLEASE INVESTIGATE REENK ROINK

He is either

a) A mafioso trying to pull something off, which means he should be lynched
b) Some vigilante/neutral role which won't help townies at all meaning he should be lynched
c) A townie just playing games and not really helping guys, which means he should be lynched

If anyone thinks that I am not a townie, feel free to investigate me, I have nothing to hide

[El Diablo]

Please fill us in more on your plan YLC - what do you think he is?

Trying to protect him from mafia won't work when he ends up lyched for being too suspicious...

[Reenk Roink]

I am actually very disappointed that I continue to receive this reception from the town. When I got my role I thought long and hard about exactly what I should do while staying true to what was expected of me. I decided to immediately start the game out like it to make myself plain and known.

Not only has the town's reaction to me completely screwed my mission, it forced me out of character, taking away a lot of the fun of the game for me as well.

Last time I was Loki, I turned my back on the town that turned it's back on me. Needless to say things are different now. One day, long after this game is all said and done, you guys (the chosen ones) will look back and appreciate my inscrutable ways...

Andres, please scratch the previous plan. I will send you a PM with my new actions and the new direction I am going to take. Sorry for the inconvenience.

[ULC]

I am actually very disappointed that I continue to receive this reception from the town. When I got my role I thought long and hard about exactly what I should do while staying true to what was expected of me. I decided to immediately start the game out like it to make myself plain and known.

Not only has the town's reaction to me completely screwed my mission, it forced me out of character, taking away a lot of the fun of the game for me as well.

Last time I was Loki, I turned my back on the town that turned it's back on me. Needless to say things are different now. One day, long after this game is all said and done, you guys (the chosen ones) will look back and appreciate my inscrutable ways...

Andres, please scratch the previous plan. I will send you a PM with my new actions and the new direction I am going to take. Sorry for the inconvenience.

Your "inscrutable ways" doomed your plan from the start. Telling us to do something in a game based on suspicions, and you do not expect us to question your motives? Come down from on high and mingle with the sheep, Great Shepard. Taking someone for granted in these games is a sure fire way of losing it all together in this game of lies.

[ULC]

Actually, I PMed TC before he died with my theory, but he died before he could respond, so now I get to bother you all with it.

How "town" are you? Stupid question, nevermind.

I believe RR might be Bernard, and he is truly trying to get himself lynched, because Isabelle might become stronger if he does so - thus balancing out the fact they have one less member. RR would only do this if he could do two things - insure that the survivor was competent, and that victory was more then 50%. This leads me to believe Isabelle is a competent player, and one who has not been voted for yet.

I am not discussing this in the thread yet, simply because it's a bit way out there, and I wanted your thoughts first before I presented it.

Can't respond, I'm dead.

Now, what does the town think? As an aside note, if my theory is true, Reenk also may have the ability to kill as well as investigate - this would add up, since it was Günner and Fehrad were our killers on night one - the reference to "do you have the package". Bernard should also be able to kill, yet there was no kill, and Reenk immediately accused Tevash of needing to be lynched - thus, Tevash, if Reenk is Bernard, is Manfredo. Although this leaves Isabelle, Günner and Fehrad unknowns for now, unless we consider that whoever Isabelle is, she might have the restriction of voting for whoever Bernard votes for - so check where Reenk voted, and look at those who voted after him, and be sure to check after he revoted as well, someone revoting would be telling.

[Beefy187]

A bit of advice for the town:

1) Never consider anyone to be a proven townie. In the first game, some townies could become mafia in the middle of the game if they were discovered by one of the mafia families. These townies did not know that they could be recruited before then, they thought they were just normal townies. When they were 'flipped' they were given the choice of changing sides or dying, which is no choice at all, especially since being mafia is fun. Thus, people may be legimitately playing as townies early on, and still be true mafia later. On the positive side, there were very few people who could do this.

2) If you find yourself in a day phase with no decent leads to go on, lynch ReenK Roink. If he's telling the truth, he's a neutral role, and they're never good for anyone but themselves. If he's lying (most), he's screwing over the town with his games and it'd be better to lose him than a more producive townie.

3) Don't form townie groups. If you've got actual information or interesting theories, post them publicly. Making info public helps the town. Keeping it private hurts the town. Trust me, I know.

Agreed. This makes this mafia harder for the town..

Im out for whole day today so don't expect me to be active.

[Askthepizzaguy]

A bit of advice for the town:

1) Never consider anyone to be a proven townie. In the first game, some townies could become mafia in the middle of the game if they were discovered by one of the mafia families. These townies did not know that they could be recruited before then, they thought they were just normal townies. When they were 'flipped' they were given the choice of changing sides or dying, which is no choice at all, especially since being mafia is fun. Thus, people may be legimitately playing as townies early on, and still be true mafia later. On the positive side, there were very few people who could do this.

2) If you find yourself in a day phase with no decent leads to go on, lynch ReenK Roink. If he's telling the truth, he's a neutral role, and they're never good for anyone but themselves. If he's lying (most), he's screwing over the town with his games and it'd be better to lose him than a more producive townie.

3) Don't form townie groups. If you've got actual information or interesting theories, post them publicly. Making info public helps the town. Keeping it private hurts the town. Trust me, I know.

I disapprove of TinCow's lynch. If I recall, he gets lynched early in a bunch of games.

He's a good player, from what I've seen. He will be missed and I hope he stays and gives his opinion as the game progresses. TinCow could have been a bad role or a good one, there's no way to know at this point, or perhaps just a townie. I would have rather seen his voting patterns.

Second, I agree that Reenk's behavior is out of place. I agree with self-lynch in the cases where someone is an Actor role, or lynch immune. Otherwise it's... ahem... BAD TOWNIE BEHAVIOR.

For that reason, I ask for his head. No hard feelings Reenk, just my opinion.

Third, if you're going to vote for me, keep your vote on me. Either lynch me or don't. Since I cannot be here everyday, I will be missing some of the votes. And since I've already shown up during two night phases, where I am useless to town, that's not points in my favor. What I intend to do is reverse the pattern, so I am here for the town's votes and not here at night, and for the people who KNOW me, that absolutely proves my innocence because I am literally gone every two days and as Andres said, that means I cannot send in my night orders, if any.

Alright on second thought it could be a good cover, but still counterproductive, objectively speaking.

I'm not going to be as "distracting" as I was earlier, before the game really began for town. At this point I will be more serious, respond to questioning, etc, give my opinion, but there's too many other people here and not enough to go on yet. Still, I disapprove of Reenk's strategy, whatever it may be, and if he's got a self-destructive roleplaying role, it could still prove to be a distraction.

I can understand if Reenk is a townie and had a role and wanted to roleplay, but I still would suggest that his importance to the game, if any, be kept hidden from the mafia, or from the town who would potentially lynch him. It was bound to happen and Reenk is experienced enough to know this.

Reenk, at least you will get to laugh at us if we're wrong, but you're not behaving in a way I can accept from an innocent townie... especially after admitting your "role". If you're trying to get the mafia or the town to lynch you as opposed to someone else, it's working, but I also consider that potentially bad strategy, IMHO.

We'll see.

[Askthepizzaguy]

By the way, if YLC's Bernard theory holds true, I want to claim right away that I am not Isabelle. You can investigate me, but I'd prefer you not waste it. Just lynch me instead. I know my analytical style is distracting and I also know that nobody trusts me, so either lynch me and be done with it, or let me speak.

Spoilers, because of WIFOM reasoning.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

It would be awfully dumb if Reenk and I were Bernard and Isabelle for me to put this idea in your head, suicidal, and unnecessary. I'm known to play that way, but for the reason that I'm known to play that way, that makes the strategy even more less likely to succeed.

Ok, so that's a bit WIFOM reasoning, but in this case I'd argue that no one trusts me anyways and I'm talking about it, and odds are people would panic and lynch me anyway. And I know that, and you know that. So, it's really, and objectively, counterproductive, and I try hard to WIN the game, not lose it on a stupid gamble. My gambles are more calculated than that.

I'm still mulling over whether I want to claim a role that I don't have to get the mafia to kill me. Which is interesting, because I'm basically daring the mafia to kill me. If town leaves me alive, the option to kill me becomes ever more intriguing... and they will waste a kill on a useless townie.

And because I just said that, and I'm known for using reverse psychology, I'm hoping they think I am bluffing and will kill me anyway.


*awaits his glorious murder death... please be sure to include lots of gory blood.

If Day phase starts soon, I can vote, but I won't be here all day, no pun intended.

Yes I know this post is lynch bait. Sorry... basically that's how I play. Those of you who have played with me know that.

[Jolt]

Why post PMs? >_> (n00b question.)

Anyways, when I meant RR's seemed like an a**, I meant he seemed like an arc. Noah's didn't smell nice though, with all 'em animals sutffed in there. :)

EDIT: Why would anyone try to get himself lynched?

[Askthepizzaguy]

There's no way I'll be able to be here for the vote, once again.



Reenk, you might be off the hook at this rate. I have to leave, won't be back in time for the vote, but what I'll do is I'll probably skip being at home for the night phase as well, and will get back for the next day cycle and be in synch with the rest of you. And if I'm dead, then I'll just haunt you.

Muhuhuhahahhahaaa!!!!

And point my finger of suspicion at those I think are eeeevil, and why. No worries.


EDIT: @jolt: Actor roles win when they get lynched. I doubt this game has an Actor.
Lynch immune roles can prove their innocence by being lynched... proof to some extent anyway. I sincerely doubt Andres puts roles like that into a game like this.

Self-lynching is bad for town, as it kills a townie on purpose who should know better... with due respect to Reenk, I'm sure he'll set me straight afterwards due to his greater experience. If a mafia self-lynches, then it's also bad for town, because we might start to think the guy is innocent when he might not be, and take his advice like a bunch of fools. Surely we should realize self-lynching is bad townie or risky mafia behavior in most cases, and that's why I suspect it.

[TinCow]

EDIT: Why would anyone try to get himself lynched?

It's not a very successful tactic, but it's been known to happen. As with everything in mafia, there are always exceptions to the rules (and commonly accepted strategies).

Trying to get yourself lynched is exceedingly risky, but in general it's a good idea for mafioso to draw attention to themselves early on in a game. This increases the likelihood that they will be investigated by a detective during a couple turns when they intentionally choose not to kill, thus 'clearing' them somewhat. The key is to draw enough attention to ensure a detective investigation, but not enough to get lynched. Intentionally voting for your own lynch is a bit of a blunt way of doing this, but it's certainly a viable method.

Later on in the game, getting lynched intentionally can be a good strategy if you think you're about to die anyway and can use your own death to help a fellow mafioso stay alive. In this situation, usually the other mafioso is the main person attacking the person about to be lynched. This is a bit easier to spot than normal, because it depends greatly on the lynched mafioso's real identity being found out pretty quickly, since the identity being confirmed 3 turns later won't provide the same benefits. Since most mafia games do not provide immediate details on the role of a lynched person, this usually means that the lynchee confesses shortly before the time limit is up when all looks 'hopeless.' This then confirms the correctness of the lynch, which in turn makes the mafioso who is leading the prosecution look like a townie.