The Scourge of Ephesus [Concluded]

On the other hand, we have Tevash tied with a known strong mafia player who knows every trick in the book about fooling the town. He may be innocent in this game, but thats a risk I am not willing to take.

Generally a strong mafia player makes a strong townie aswell?

..and no I am not defending my "scummy pal". He has just got bandwaggoned for no reason other than he was a good mafia in other games - not this one. Good players should be kept (but watched closely) as he may also be able to spot mafioso mistakes???

What I don't understand at this point is RR "revalation" and what that means.

1. Perhaps RR is a detective style role and luckily got investigated Tev with a positive result. Possible but he does not seem to be flat out calling for a lynch - particularly when he then votes for TC who he has not even "investigated".

2. Perhaps RR gets something from being lynched (like the Troy McClure from ATPG Simpsons)? he could be a neutral of some sort?

3. He is a bored townie and is just fooling around in the first round knowing that it really doesn't affect too much as no know knows alot at this stage.

4. He is mafia. Unlikely as he has made himeself a big target early. Usually not a good idea - but could be the old WIFOM tactic?? Very very risky.

In his posting he seems to make himself non-townie - once again a neutral? They can often turn bad later so...

Unvote Tevashzat
Vote Reenk Roink

Now those that think I am protecting TC may note that my vote change may infact lynch him.
But I feel it better to try and get what I feel is at the least a neutral rather that trust his call with a Tevashzat or a bandwaggoned TinCow.

Voting concluded.

Stand by for execution.

Originally Posted by Reenk Roink

I hope both of them get killed. I'll personally kill the survivor.

Yeah, I was right the last two games about Reenk..... Hopefully, I am right this time and Reenk is Pro-town or at least neutral....

BTW, YLC....you helped Reenk win a Mafia game because you held to life, like a 'Rat being flushed down the toilet'....and you still think that Tin Cows clinging to life is helping town? (I have no mercy on him since Ares got killed....I feel sorry for him.....thus, until Tin Cow is lynched or I am killed I will not remove my vote on him)

but what if im wrong?
well if he is mafia ylc probably is, if he isnt then ylc is probs innocent, though andres might not tell

The Scourge of Ephesus - Day 1 - Conclusion




Ephesus - The Ancient theatre - 8.00 pm.

The gathered tourists shouted and yelled.

It was getting hot. 40 °C in the shadows.

The debates got heated as well.

Reenk Roink, Tevashzat and TinCow were at the middle of the attention.

Finally, the crowd pushed Tevashzat and TinCow forward.

"Lynch Tevashzat, he's got a scummy face and some guy claimed he was sure about his guilt", one group of tourists yelled.

"No, lynch TinCow! I've heard rumours he hails from England. England + cows = madness. Aren't we looking for a maniac? It's him."

The crowd kept yelling and pushing both men until the athletic man, who had spoken earlier that morning stood up and raised his voice.

"Shut up! It seems like you guys can't make up your mind." He held something in his hand. It had a silvery shine.

"I found this ancient coin. I suggest I flip it. If it's head, it's TinCow, otherwise, it's Tevashzat. Agreed?"

The crowd approved and thus, the man flipped his coin.

While the coin was floating in the air, somebody raised his voice: "Wait, I've changed my mind. I no longer think Tevashzat is guilty."

***

Suddenly, time stopped and a cloud appeared and a golden light shined over the theater. A loud voice could be heard:

"What? I had this whole story ready about a crowd looking at a coin and guys pushing each other and something happening and then you're going to make a last minute vote change? Gah!"

The cloud disappeared again and time continued.

***

The athletic man turned his gaze at TinCow.

"Ok then, it seems like you're the one who is going to die. Any last words?"

TinCow looked around him.

"You are all crazy! Crazy! I'm an innocent man! If you dare to lynch me, then I'll, I'll, I'll... I'll sue you all!"

"Yeah, yeah," the athletic man said and he kicked TinCow in the face.

As soon as he hit the ground another man took a large rock and threw it at TinCow's skull. Another one did the same and within minutes the crowd was kicking and hitting TinCow's already dead body.

After the crowd was calm again, one man said: "Now, sue us!"

The gathered tourists laughed.

"Let's hope we got the scumbag! Good night all".

And so, the tourists walked away, hoping for a peaceful night...

While the tourists where still whispering and talking about the past events, a gentle breeze tried to cover the coin under the sand again. Before the coin disappeared however, a man grabbed it and put it in his pocket.

***

Tally:

TinCow : 7 (GH, shlin28, Reenk Roink, White_Eyes:D, Tevashzat, FactionHeir, Ignoramus)

Tevashzat : 6 (Quintus.JC, YLC, Sigurd, Yoyoma, TinCow, Seamus Fermanagh)
Reenk Roink : 2 (Jolt, El Diablo)

boudica : 1 (Tiberius of the Drake)
Jolt : 1 (boudica)
White_Eyes:D : 1 (Caius)
Askthepizzaguy : 1 (187Beefyz)
YLC : 1 (CountArach)
Ibn-Khaldun : 1 (woad&fangs)
Lord Winter: 1 (TheFlax)
Caius: 1 (Ibn-Khaldun)
El Diablo: 1 (Chaotix27)
FactionHeir: 1 (glyphz)

Not voted : 4 ('khaan, Rythmic, Askthepizzaguy, Lord Winter)

***

Alive (28)

boudica
GeneralHankerchief
Jolt
seireikhaan
Rythmic
shlin28
Tiberius of the Drake
Reenk Roink
White_Eyes :D
Tevashzat
187Beefyz
Chaotix27
Askthepizzaguy
Quintus.JC
YLC
Sigurd
woad&fangs
Yoyoma1910
Ibn-Khaldun
Lord Winter
CountArach
TheFlax
Caius
El Diablo
Glyphz
FactionHeir
Seamus Fermanagh
Ignoramus


Killed (1) :

777Ares777

Lynched (1) :

TinCow

WoG/Suicide (0):


It's now night. Night will either last until 19.30 or until 24.00 (GMT +1; RL may interfere).

PM's please


Good night town

PM from YLC (earlier before the lynch - Time: Today, 11:34 AM Eastern)

Originally Posted by YLC

Look, I see what your trying to pull (I think...therefore I don't, but at least I a sure of myself ), and I'm willing to believe you for now. So, in the interests of not getting you killed almost immediately, lets do to you what you did to me in Prometheus - Make you highly suspicious, but not enough to lynch you outright. If the mafia are predictable in anyway in this game, they may let you live based on the idea that your a good cover for now.

[snip: not relevant]

Also Andres please kill TevashSzat (I see no need to PM you with my powers and such).

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

PM me if you need me to PM you...

You could have left the other half of the message out RR, that was a of a much more personal matter that had nothing to do with the game at all. And stop pulling things that consistently make me rethink my position on you - I have enough things that induce headaches.

Originally Posted by YLC

You could have left the other half of the message out RR, that was a of a much more personal matter that had nothing to do with the game at all. And stop pulling things that consistently make me rethink my position on you - I have enough things that induce headaches.

Ok my mistake about the second personal part of the PM. I must admit that I actually did not read your PM before this. Just skimmed it.

I do apologize for the personal part.

Also, you are too modest in your personal part anyway and I am happy you are rethinking your position.

A bit of advice for the town:

1) Never consider anyone to be a proven townie. In the first game, some townies could become mafia in the middle of the game if they were discovered by one of the mafia families. These townies did not know that they could be recruited before then, they thought they were just normal townies. When they were 'flipped' they were given the choice of changing sides or dying, which is no choice at all, especially since being mafia is fun. Thus, people may be legimitately playing as townies early on, and still be true mafia later. On the positive side, there were very few people who could do this.

2) If you find yourself in a day phase with no decent leads to go on, lynch ReenK Roink. If he's telling the truth, he's a neutral role, and they're never good for anyone but themselves. If he's lying (most), he's screwing over the town with his games and it'd be better to lose him than a more producive townie.

3) Don't form townie groups. If you've got actual information or interesting theories, post them publicly. Making info public helps the town. Keeping it private hurts the town. Trust me, I know.

Okay, if we got a detective PLEASE INVESTIGATE REENK ROINK

He is either

a) A mafioso trying to pull something off, which means he should be lynched
b) Some vigilante/neutral role which won't help townies at all meaning he should be lynched
c) A townie just playing games and not really helping guys, which means he should be lynched

If anyone thinks that I am not a townie, feel free to investigate me, I have nothing to hide

Originally Posted by TinCow

A bit of advice for the town:

1) Never consider anyone to be a proven townie. In the first game, some townies could become mafia in the middle of the game if they were discovered by one of the mafia families. These townies did not know that they could be recruited before then, they thought they were just normal townies. When they were 'flipped' they were given the choice of changing sides or dying, which is no choice at all, especially since being mafia is fun. Thus, people may be legimitately playing as townies early on, and still be true mafia later. On the positive side, there were very few people who could do this.

2) If you find yourself in a day phase with no decent leads to go on, lynch ReenK Roink. If he's telling the truth, he's a neutral role, and they're never good for anyone but themselves. If he's lying (most), he's screwing over the town with his games and it'd be better to lose him than a more producive townie.

3) Don't form townie groups. If you've got actual information or interesting theories, post them publicly. Making info public helps the town. Keeping it private hurts the town. Trust me, I know.

Agreed. This makes this mafia harder for the town..

Im out for whole day today so don't expect me to be active.

Please fill us in more on your plan YLC - what do you think he is?

Trying to protect him from mafia won't work when he ends up lyched for being too suspicious...

I am actually very disappointed that I continue to receive this reception from the town. When I got my role I thought long and hard about exactly what I should do while staying true to what was expected of me. I decided to immediately start the game out like it to make myself plain and known.

Not only has the town's reaction to me completely screwed my mission, it forced me out of character, taking away a lot of the fun of the game for me as well.

Last time I was Loki, I turned my back on the town that turned it's back on me. Needless to say things are different now. One day, long after this game is all said and done, you guys (the chosen ones) will look back and appreciate my inscrutable ways...

Andres, please scratch the previous plan. I will send you a PM with my new actions and the new direction I am going to take. Sorry for the inconvenience.

Actually, I PMed TC before he died with my theory, but he died before he could respond, so now I get to bother you all with it.

Originally Posted by TinCow

Originally Posted by YLC

How "town" are you? Stupid question, nevermind.

I believe RR might be Bernard, and he is truly trying to get himself lynched, because Isabelle might become stronger if he does so - thus balancing out the fact they have one less member. RR would only do this if he could do two things - insure that the survivor was competent, and that victory was more then 50%. This leads me to believe Isabelle is a competent player, and one who has not been voted for yet.

I am not discussing this in the thread yet, simply because it's a bit way out there, and I wanted your thoughts first before I presented it.

Can't respond, I'm dead.

Now, what does the town think? As an aside note, if my theory is true, Reenk also may have the ability to kill as well as investigate - this would add up, since it was Günner and Fehrad were our killers on night one - the reference to "do you have the package". Bernard should also be able to kill, yet there was no kill, and Reenk immediately accused Tevash of needing to be lynched - thus, Tevash, if Reenk is Bernard, is Manfredo. Although this leaves Isabelle, Günner and Fehrad unknowns for now, unless we consider that whoever Isabelle is, she might have the restriction of voting for whoever Bernard votes for - so check where Reenk voted, and look at those who voted after him, and be sure to check after he revoted as well, someone revoting would be telling.

Originally Posted by Reenk Roink

I am actually very disappointed that I continue to receive this reception from the town. When I got my role I thought long and hard about exactly what I should do while staying true to what was expected of me. I decided to immediately start the game out like it to make myself plain and known.

Not only has the town's reaction to me completely screwed my mission, it forced me out of character, taking away a lot of the fun of the game for me as well.

Last time I was Loki, I turned my back on the town that turned it's back on me. Needless to say things are different now. One day, long after this game is all said and done, you guys (the chosen ones) will look back and appreciate my inscrutable ways...

Andres, please scratch the previous plan. I will send you a PM with my new actions and the new direction I am going to take. Sorry for the inconvenience.

Your "inscrutable ways" doomed your plan from the start. Telling us to do something in a game based on suspicions, and you do not expect us to question your motives? Come down from on high and mingle with the sheep, Great Shepard. Taking someone for granted in these games is a sure fire way of losing it all together in this game of lies.

Your theory fails miserably because as soon as I got a majority vote on myself, I unvoted and voted TinCow. Please keep trying to understand the ununderstandable though, it is the little bit of fun left for me in this game.

Originally Posted by Reenk Roink

Your theory fails miserably because as soon as I got a majority vote on myself, I unvoted and voted TinCow. Please keep trying to understand the ununderstandable though, it is the little bit of fun left for me in this game.

No, I do not see how my theory fails. The part about Isabelle being restricted to vote where Bernard votes unto itself is flimsy, but possible. I am only listing possibilities, not definites. Also, I asked for input, nothing more. Your repeated attempts to talk about yourself in the third person though during the beginning of the game mean you ARE Bernard (I think..., I have no idea where that came from, but yeah...). Or your not familiar with the English language...

I am actually very disappointed that I continue to receive this reception from the town. When I got my role I thought long and hard about exactly what I should do while staying true to what was expected of me. I decided to immediately start the game out like it to make myself plain and known.

What kind of reception would you have prefered

taking away a lot of the fun of the game for me

Again, prey tell what we should we treat you like?

Originally Posted by TinCow

A bit of advice for the town:

1) Never consider anyone to be a proven townie. In the first game, some townies could become mafia in the middle of the game if they were discovered by one of the mafia families. These townies did not know that they could be recruited before then, they thought they were just normal townies. When they were 'flipped' they were given the choice of changing sides or dying, which is no choice at all, especially since being mafia is fun. Thus, people may be legimitately playing as townies early on, and still be true mafia later. On the positive side, there were very few people who could do this.

2) If you find yourself in a day phase with no decent leads to go on, lynch ReenK Roink. If he's telling the truth, he's a neutral role, and they're never good for anyone but themselves. If he's lying (most), he's screwing over the town with his games and it'd be better to lose him than a more producive townie.

3) Don't form townie groups. If you've got actual information or interesting theories, post them publicly. Making info public helps the town. Keeping it private hurts the town. Trust me, I know.

I disapprove of TinCow's lynch. If I recall, he gets lynched early in a bunch of games.

He's a good player, from what I've seen. He will be missed and I hope he stays and gives his opinion as the game progresses. TinCow could have been a bad role or a good one, there's no way to know at this point, or perhaps just a townie. I would have rather seen his voting patterns.

Second, I agree that Reenk's behavior is out of place. I agree with self-lynch in the cases where someone is an Actor role, or lynch immune. Otherwise it's... ahem... BAD TOWNIE BEHAVIOR.

For that reason, I ask for his head. No hard feelings Reenk, just my opinion.

Third, if you're going to vote for me, keep your vote on me. Either lynch me or don't. Since I cannot be here everyday, I will be missing some of the votes. And since I've already shown up during two night phases, where I am useless to town, that's not points in my favor. What I intend to do is reverse the pattern, so I am here for the town's votes and not here at night, and for the people who KNOW me, that absolutely proves my innocence because I am literally gone every two days and as Andres said, that means I cannot send in my night orders, if any.

Alright on second thought it could be a good cover, but still counterproductive, objectively speaking.

I'm not going to be as "distracting" as I was earlier, before the game really began for town. At this point I will be more serious, respond to questioning, etc, give my opinion, but there's too many other people here and not enough to go on yet. Still, I disapprove of Reenk's strategy, whatever it may be, and if he's got a self-destructive roleplaying role, it could still prove to be a distraction.

I can understand if Reenk is a townie and had a role and wanted to roleplay, but I still would suggest that his importance to the game, if any, be kept hidden from the mafia, or from the town who would potentially lynch him. It was bound to happen and Reenk is experienced enough to know this.

Reenk, at least you will get to laugh at us if we're wrong, but you're not behaving in a way I can accept from an innocent townie... especially after admitting your "role". If you're trying to get the mafia or the town to lynch you as opposed to someone else, it's working, but I also consider that potentially bad strategy, IMHO.

We'll see.

By the way, if YLC's Bernard theory holds true, I want to claim right away that I am not Isabelle. You can investigate me, but I'd prefer you not waste it. Just lynch me instead. I know my analytical style is distracting and I also know that nobody trusts me, so either lynch me and be done with it, or let me speak.

Spoilers, because of WIFOM reasoning.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

It would be awfully dumb if Reenk and I were Bernard and Isabelle for me to put this idea in your head, suicidal, and unnecessary. I'm known to play that way, but for the reason that I'm known to play that way, that makes the strategy even more less likely to succeed.

Ok, so that's a bit WIFOM reasoning, but in this case I'd argue that no one trusts me anyways and I'm talking about it, and odds are people would panic and lynch me anyway. And I know that, and you know that. So, it's really, and objectively, counterproductive, and I try hard to WIN the game, not lose it on a stupid gamble. My gambles are more calculated than that.

I'm still mulling over whether I want to claim a role that I don't have to get the mafia to kill me. Which is interesting, because I'm basically daring the mafia to kill me. If town leaves me alive, the option to kill me becomes ever more intriguing... and they will waste a kill on a useless townie.

And because I just said that, and I'm known for using reverse psychology, I'm hoping they think I am bluffing and will kill me anyway.


*awaits his glorious murder death... please be sure to include lots of gory blood.

If Day phase starts soon, I can vote, but I won't be here all day, no pun intended.

Yes I know this post is lynch bait. Sorry... basically that's how I play. Those of you who have played with me know that.

Why post PMs? >_> (n00b question.)

Anyways, when I meant RR's seemed like an a**, I meant he seemed like an arc. Noah's didn't smell nice though, with all 'em animals sutffed in there. :)

EDIT: Why would anyone try to get himself lynched?

There's no way I'll be able to be here for the vote, once again.



Reenk, you might be off the hook at this rate. I have to leave, won't be back in time for the vote, but what I'll do is I'll probably skip being at home for the night phase as well, and will get back for the next day cycle and be in synch with the rest of you. And if I'm dead, then I'll just haunt you.

Muhuhuhahahhahaaa!!!!

And point my finger of suspicion at those I think are eeeevil, and why. No worries.


EDIT: @jolt: Actor roles win when they get lynched. I doubt this game has an Actor.
Lynch immune roles can prove their innocence by being lynched... proof to some extent anyway. I sincerely doubt Andres puts roles like that into a game like this.

Self-lynching is bad for town, as it kills a townie on purpose who should know better... with due respect to Reenk, I'm sure he'll set me straight afterwards due to his greater experience. If a mafia self-lynches, then it's also bad for town, because we might start to think the guy is innocent when he might not be, and take his advice like a bunch of fools. Surely we should realize self-lynching is bad townie or risky mafia behavior in most cases, and that's why I suspect it.

Originally Posted by Jolt

EDIT: Why would anyone try to get himself lynched?

It's not a very successful tactic, but it's been known to happen. As with everything in mafia, there are always exceptions to the rules (and commonly accepted strategies).

Trying to get yourself lynched is exceedingly risky, but in general it's a good idea for mafioso to draw attention to themselves early on in a game. This increases the likelihood that they will be investigated by a detective during a couple turns when they intentionally choose not to kill, thus 'clearing' them somewhat. The key is to draw enough attention to ensure a detective investigation, but not enough to get lynched. Intentionally voting for your own lynch is a bit of a blunt way of doing this, but it's certainly a viable method.

Later on in the game, getting lynched intentionally can be a good strategy if you think you're about to die anyway and can use your own death to help a fellow mafioso stay alive. In this situation, usually the other mafioso is the main person attacking the person about to be lynched. This is a bit easier to spot than normal, because it depends greatly on the lynched mafioso's real identity being found out pretty quickly, since the identity being confirmed 3 turns later won't provide the same benefits. Since most mafia games do not provide immediate details on the role of a lynched person, this usually means that the lynchee confesses shortly before the time limit is up when all looks 'hopeless.' This then confirms the correctness of the lynch, which in turn makes the mafioso who is leading the prosecution look like a townie.

Originally Posted by TinCow

It's not a very successful tactic, but it's been known to happen. As with everything in mafia, there are always exceptions to the rules (and commonly accepted strategies).

Trying to get yourself lynched is exceedingly risky, but in general it's a good idea for mafioso to draw attention to themselves early on in a game. This increases the likelihood that they will be investigated by a detective during a couple turns when they intentionally choose not to kill, thus 'clearing' them somewhat. The key is to draw enough attention to ensure a detective investigation, but not enough to get lynched. Intentionally voting for your own lynch is a bit of a blunt way of doing this, but it's certainly a viable method.

Later on in the game, getting lynched intentionally can be a good strategy if you think you're about to die anyway and can use your own death to help a fellow mafioso stay alive. In this situation, usually the other mafioso is the main person attacking the person about to be lynched. This is a bit easier to spot than normal, because it depends greatly on the lynched mafioso's real identity being found out pretty quickly, since the identity being confirmed 3 turns later won't provide the same benefits. Since most mafia games do not provide immediate details on the role of a lynched person, this usually means that the lynchee confesses shortly before the time limit is up when all looks 'hopeless.' This then confirms the correctness of the lynch, which in turn makes the mafioso who is leading the prosecution look like a townie.

...Oh. Nice explanation. Since I didn't have an idea about what happened in the day phase (Other than mafioso kills).

EDIT: What's WIFOM?

Originally Posted by Jolt

EDIT: What's WIFOM?

From the FAQ:

WIFOM: Stands for "wine in front of me" a reference to the scene from "The Princess Bride". Describes a situation where you go in an endless loop without reaching a conclusion, e.g. "He voted for himself and mafia care about living so he can't be mafia but he knew we would think that so it's a clever ploy so he is mafia but he knew we knew he knew..."

Lynching Tincow could prove costly in the future....

Seriously Reenik needs to be checked. The case against Tevash was poor, the case against Tincow was even worse. Should Tincow been town then we have just lynched one of our most valuable players.

That dire doom and gloom prediction smells of fabrication. Townies need not be so afraid at this early stage.

People still respect and listen to TinCow. I may even take his direction as to who to vote for, should he make a case for someone.

The pessimism and warning you just posted makes me think you are putting on an act.
So sayeth the Pizza.

*Sigh*


I just don't get these local customs.

To what are you referring?

Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

To what are you referring?

*takes a photo of the talking pizza slice, with cape*

Like, where's the Starbucks kiosk?