The Scourge of Ephesus [Concluded]

[seireikhaan]

Unvote: Ibn-Khaldun

Vote: GeneralHankerchief

The case:

First of all, we must consider the General's behavior in the backdrop that he was going to "rock us like a hurricane."

Round one-- GH votes for TinCow as a "precautionary tactic" right off the bat. Talks a bit with Reenk over Reenk's styles of play. This seems to hint that, perhaps, GH was hoping to dredge a lynch against him later. The round goes on for a bit with the usual "round one-ish" sort of junk. GH, at 12:55 claims "Please, for the love of all that is good in this world, put this round out of its misery." FIVE HOURS later, responding to TinCow's aggravation at being railroaded for no reason, he stated, "Oh come on, you yourself have said that the first round is nothing but randomness and chaos. I was thinking about taking my vote off of you but not after this statement." This is false. He claimed five hours earlier that he dearly wished for the round to be finished. What this does is attempt to give legitimacy to his supposedly "random and pre-cautionary" vote despite the fact that he seemed to have harbored "greater suspicion" towards Reenk during their talks. End result: TinCow, a very, very good player, is lynched and given the infinite agnosticism towards his innocence which comes from lynch.

Round two-- Very curious, GH doesn't vote. Rather lacking coming from our resident hurricane. Further complicating things is that there is a boatload of other non-voters to blend in with. I realize that the Golden Rule had not finished yet; however, this is not good enough as a reason. I expect a vote every round, at least an abstain, if we are to pronounce you "Ser Hurricane".

Round Three-- GH abstains. Rather unfortunate in terms of attempting to analyze. However, it is here that he "reveals" his role under enormous pressure. Now, I do not doubt that the General has a role blocking role. Indeed, there are far too many vouching for having been blocked. However, I doubt the allignment. I'll get into this further later on in the post.

Round Four-- GH claims "Screw it, let's make it six.

Vote: Quintus.JC". "Screw it?" Really? Is that the best you can do? You would claim suspicion of Sigurd, but didn't vote on it. Instead, you voted to "give an extra tie". For what, exactly? As you claimed later, just before the lynch: "Frankly I don't think any of the favorites for this round look guilty.

Boudica seems innocent to me, I don't trust Sigurd (who voted for CA) as far as I can throw him, Quintus is helping out, and Beefy would be playing a better game if he was mafia (see Golden Rule) and Jolt doesn't stand out enough in my mind to be lynched." You didn't vote on the person you thought suspicious, and instead waited a round. Why? Well, there was little momentum against Sigurd at the time of this lynch. I believe GH waited to get proper momentum going. But even more preposterous, you VOTED for a person you claimed was "helping". What's this all about?

Round Five-- Sigurd is lynched in a tie with myself. Now, apparently some people believe I'm actually good at mafia. So, if one is a mafioso, and there is a tie between an innocent Sigurd and an innocent Khaan, its a party, I guess? GH successfully got a lynch against Sigurd. The reason? Apparently, because Sigurd had expressed doubt about the role claim. You even admitted here that the case against Sigurd wasn't much. Yet you stood hard and fast, and helped lynch one of the best townspeople in the game on thin reasoning. To me, this stinks of you helping thin out the veteran mafia crew by way of lynch. I know you wouldn't kill most of these people and exhonerate them. So you resort to helping get them lynched, which leaves doubt as to their allignment, nullifying potential town support from any argument which comes from them. Reenk, of course, was a whole other deal entirely because of how badly he was confusing everyone.


Now, as for the role- you claimed you never receieved alignment in the role PM. This is one of three things. 1) Oversight by the INFALLIBLE Andres. 2) WIFOM. 3) You were intended to be ambiguous, and made a slip by admitting it. I personally believe it is 2)

Now, here's the thing... you claimed there would be narration if there was a successful block. In six nights, there has not been one successful block despite having the ability to block two people each night. And when Woad perished, you claimed you were "going to block him", but that you instead did Beefy and YLC and that this was "a bad night for the town". COP OUT.

But here's the part I really can't get my head around. You blocked Reenk night two. Reenk was not being lynched, in ultimatum. You clearly believed Reenk to be innocent, due to never voting for him. Reenk was claiming a very important role. WHY DID YOU STOP PROTECTING/BLOCKING REENK ROINK? This makes absolutely no sense. Further, that there were no kills on night two suggests that there was, in fact, a block taking place. Look at the number of kills that have been taking place recently. Can one really believe that there was NO blocks on night two? Think about it... Reenk has repeatedly claimed he was "doing way" or wanted to "do away" with various people, obviously claiming he had kill power. TI believe the General blocked Reenk on behalf of his nervous mafia comrades, to attempt to a) stop an attempt on his life, thus exhonerating him, and b) stop Reenk himself. When it became clear the town wasn't taking the bait fast enough, the protection/block stopped, and Reenk was killed by the mafia to eliminate his threat. And here's the curious thing... only after Reenk's blocking do the kills pickup. To me, this is what this means: Reenk started the game with some kind of vigenlante ability. The mafia/other, for whatever reason Andres devised up, had to wait. For what? Who knows.



I URGE EVERYONE TO VOTE GH. HE IS PLAYING YOU.

[CountArach]

IK seems like a wasted lynch to me. He seems to be making common noobish mistakes, and as such just serves to detract from a real hunt for the mafia. We have no way to read him yet, seeing as he is new.

I'm not sure I buy khaan's reasoning to vote GH. I just can't see a role-blocker being useful to the mafia at all and I am fairly sure Andres would see things a similar way. Perhaps if there were several mafia families this would be a decent role, but in a game with one family I am not so sure.

[Reenk Roink]

Aside from being too quick to the draw and getting some "facts" wrong, khaan is right that GeneralHankerchief is probably trying to play the town.

I was going to play along and wait for the right moment to make a strike against him but it seems it the shot has already been fired. Either way, you still have quite a bit of time town, so just keep GH on radar and get the rest of the scum.

Edit: I hope it's also painfully clear that seireikhaan is probably playing the town too...

[GeneralHankerchief]

I'm tired and depressed right now (see the NFL thread). I see khaan has made a long post against me. I'll address it tomorrow.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Okay, I lied. Consider this post a basic overall defense. Tomorrow I'll get into specifics.

- First off, THINK OF MY ROLE BACKGROUND, PEOPLE. I'm the old man, the guide, the dude who knows Ephesus better than anybody else. If you think this is in doubt, then go back over ATPG's murder description. Everybody's going after each other for revenge or something in this game, and my town is caught in the crossfire. Every night I hide two people in a secret cave to try to save their lives (and block them) and tell them boring stories. If this sounds anything other than pro-town to you, please let me know.

- Secondly, I never voted for Reenk out of a desire of self-preservation. I had no way to know if Reenk was telling the truth about his "godlike powers" or not, so decided to err on the side of self-preservation and never officially get on his bad side. Considering my role I believe this was appropriate. Yes, I persuaded you to lynch him without ever actually doing any heavy lifting myself. Sorry for the manipulation, but it achieved what I wanted to achieve.

- Thirdly, my case against Sigurd had nothing to do with his skepticism of my reveal. It had to do with general thread behavior and more specifically his convenient lapse of memory as far as my role in Spirit Mafia was concerned.

G'night all.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Okay, here we go. For reference, here's my original basic defense from last night:

Okay, I lied. Consider this post a basic overall defense. Tomorrow I'll get into specifics.

- First off, THINK OF MY ROLE BACKGROUND, PEOPLE. I'm the old man, the guide, the dude who knows Ephesus better than anybody else. If you think this is in doubt, then go back over ATPG's murder description. Everybody's going after each other for revenge or something in this game, and my town is caught in the crossfire. Every night I hide two people in a secret cave to try to save their lives (and block them) and tell them boring stories. If this sounds anything other than pro-town to you, please let me know.

- Secondly, I never voted for Reenk out of a desire of self-preservation. I had no way to know if Reenk was telling the truth about his "godlike powers" or not, so decided to err on the side of self-preservation and never officially get on his bad side. Considering my role I believe this was appropriate. Yes, I persuaded you to lynch him without ever actually doing any heavy lifting myself. Sorry for the manipulation, but it achieved what I wanted to achieve.

- Thirdly, my case against Sigurd had nothing to do with his skepticism of my reveal. It had to do with general thread behavior and more specifically his convenient lapse of memory as far as my role in Spirit Mafia was concerned.

G'night all.

Now then, for the specifics.

Round one-- GH votes for TinCow as a "precautionary tactic" right off the bat. Talks a bit with Reenk over Reenk's styles of play. This seems to hint that, perhaps, GH was hoping to dredge a lynch against him later. The round goes on for a bit with the usual "round one-ish" sort of junk. GH, at 12:55 claims "Please, for the love of all that is good in this world, put this round out of its misery." FIVE HOURS later, responding to TinCow's aggravation at being railroaded for no reason, he stated, "Oh come on, you yourself have said that the first round is nothing but randomness and chaos. I was thinking about taking my vote off of you but not after this statement." This is false. He claimed five hours earlier that he dearly wished for the round to be finished. What this does is attempt to give legitimacy to his supposedly "random and pre-cautionary" vote despite the fact that he seemed to have harbored "greater suspicion" towards Reenk during their talks. End result: TinCow, a very, very good player, is lynched and given the infinite agnosticism towards his innocence which comes from lynch.

It's a first-round lynch. I'm not sure of your case against me in this round, but my reasons for not voting Reenk have already been explained above. I was considering shifting my vote to a third party (not TC or Reenk) for a while, since I never intended TC to get lynched, but after his "aggravation" post I decided to leave it on him.

Round two-- Very curious, GH doesn't vote. Rather lacking coming from our resident hurricane. Further complicating things is that there is a boatload of other non-voters to blend in with. I realize that the Golden Rule had not finished yet; however, this is not good enough as a reason. I expect a vote every round, at least an abstain, if we are to pronounce you "Ser Hurricane".

For the record, I lost track of things in that round. I do recall posting, I believe, and thought I had lodged my vote in that post.

Round Four-- GH claims "Screw it, let's make it six.

Vote: Quintus.JC". "Screw it?" Really? Is that the best you can do? You would claim suspicion of Sigurd, but didn't vote on it. Instead, you voted to "give an extra tie". For what, exactly? As you claimed later, just before the lynch: "Frankly I don't think any of the favorites for this round look guilty.

Boudica seems innocent to me, I don't trust Sigurd (who voted for CA) as far as I can throw him, Quintus is helping out, and Beefy would be playing a better game if he was mafia (see Golden Rule) and Jolt doesn't stand out enough in my mind to be lynched." You didn't vote on the person you thought suspicious, and instead waited a round. Why? Well, there was little momentum against Sigurd at the time of this lynch. I believe GH waited to get proper momentum going. But even more preposterous, you VOTED for a person you claimed was "helping". What's this all about?

Sigurd wasn't getting lynched that round. At that point, I didn't have my case against him, just a suspicion. If my vote left Quintus then he wouldn't have as much incentive to get on, post, and defend himself (for the benefit of everyone else).

Round Five-- Sigurd is lynched in a tie with myself. Now, apparently some people believe I'm actually good at mafia. So, if one is a mafioso, and there is a tie between an innocent Sigurd and an innocent Khaan, its a party, I guess? GH successfully got a lynch against Sigurd. The reason? Apparently, because Sigurd had expressed doubt about the role claim. You even admitted here that the case against Sigurd wasn't much. Yet you stood hard and fast, and helped lynch one of the best townspeople in the game on thin reasoning. To me, this stinks of you helping thin out the veteran mafia crew by way of lynch. I know you wouldn't kill most of these people and exhonerate them. So you resort to helping get them lynched, which leaves doubt as to their allignment, nullifying potential town support from any argument which comes from them. Reenk, of course, was a whole other deal entirely because of how badly he was confusing everyone.

Note my reasons for voting Sigurd above.

Now, here's the thing... you claimed there would be narration if there was a successful block. In six nights, there has not been one successful block despite having the ability to block two people each night. And when Woad perished, you claimed you were "going to block him", but that you instead did Beefy and YLC and that this was "a bad night for the town". COP OUT.

Protection, not block, how many times do I have to make this clear? If I hide Person Z in the tunnel and Person A sends in orders to kill Person Z that night, there will be narration. If I hide Person A in the tunnel, thus preventing him from doing anything else, there will be no narration.

Secondly, there was a narration of a protection in the thread - it just wasn't successful for whatever reason. Again, I refer you to ATPG's murder description.

Thirdly, the "COP OUT" bit. Let me guide you through my thought process yesterday. I roll out of bed, groggy and tired. I skim through the thread and see that woad has been killed. I barely got any sleep that night because my roommate snores like a buzz saw. When you're in that state of mind, there isn't much filter between brain and mouth (fingers?). I'm noting regret out loud that Woadsy died when I considered protecting him the prior night. Give me a break.

But here's the part I really can't get my head around. You blocked Reenk night two. Reenk was not being lynched, in ultimatum. You clearly believed Reenk to be innocent, due to never voting for him. Reenk was claiming a very important role. WHY DID YOU STOP PROTECTING/BLOCKING REENK ROINK? This makes absolutely no sense. Further, that there were no kills on night two suggests that there was, in fact, a block taking place. Look at the number of kills that have been taking place recently. Can one really believe that there was NO blocks on night two? Think about it... Reenk has repeatedly claimed he was "doing way" or wanted to "do away" with various people, obviously claiming he had kill power. TI believe the General blocked Reenk on behalf of his nervous mafia comrades, to attempt to a) stop an attempt on his life, thus exhonerating him, and b) stop Reenk himself. When it became clear the town wasn't taking the bait fast enough, the protection/block stopped, and Reenk was killed by the mafia to eliminate his threat. And here's the curious thing... only after Reenk's blocking do the kills pickup. To me, this is what this means: Reenk started the game with some kind of vigenlante ability. The mafia/other, for whatever reason Andres devised up, had to wait. For what? Who knows.

See reasons for not voting Reenk above.

~~~~~~~~~~~~

All right, look. khaan, I don't think you're a mafioso, just horribly misguided. I don't want either of us to get lynched this round. BUT. If it comes down to that, I will shift my vote to you because I am more valuable to the town's cause.

Lastly, I ask the town: What are your reasons for doubting me? Do you truly doubt my role, question its alignment, and think it's safe to lynch a role blocker (a doctor and role blocker for God's sake!) just out of precaution, or do you do this just because it's me? Just because I am the role blocker, as opposed to someone like glyphz, or Tevash? Think on that, folks. I am pro-town through and through.

[Lord Winter]

Your role description has no effect on innocence or guilt. It's also weird that you haven't died yet. I still find your defense vague and scummy but for now, we'll let you live and see what happens latter in the game. For now I don't want to take a chance lynching a power town role. We'll see about latter.

Unvote: GH
Vote: Ibn-Khaldun


Back to scum number 1, I still don't buy your defense and your a perfect example of someone just doing the minimum to avoid the WoG.

[seireikhaan]

It's a first-round lynch. I'm not sure of your case against me in this round, but my reasons for not voting Reenk have already been explained above. I was considering shifting my vote to a third party (not TC or Reenk) for a while, since I never intended TC to get lynched, but after his "aggravation" post I decided to leave it on him.

My case against you is twofold here, and you are missing the boat on what I was arguing. My point is this: you lodged an early, supposedly random vote. You proceed to argue with other players. You then moan and whine and hiss about wanting the round to end. TC rightfully complains about getting railroaded for no reason, and then you blast him for it and claim, after you proclaimed to want the round to end, that you were considering to unvote TC. At some point, you are lying here. Further, the lynching of TinCow means he cannot be exonerated through a night killing. Hence, for a mafioso, the successful lynch of such a good player right at the beginning of the game is a stroke of genius. Tell me, should we ever let you or Seamus or Sigurd or Andres be the victim of a "random" lynch on day one, with little to go on? Of course not, if they are townspeople they are quite helpful. TC is in this same boat. Day one is NOT the time to lynch such skilled players. And I believe you know this just as well as anyone else here. Further, if you hadn't intended to get TC lynched, why did you vote him in the first place?

For the record, I lost track of things in that round. I do recall posting, I believe, and thought I had lodged my vote in that post.

Fair enough, we all make mistakes. Hurricanes, however, do not.

Sigurd wasn't getting lynched that round. At that point, I didn't have my case against him, just a suspicion. If my vote left Quintus then he wouldn't have as much incentive to get on, post, and defend himself (for the benefit of everyone else).

You'll have to explain this further to me. Exactly why do you not go after the one who you deem suspicious, and instead vote a player you claimed was "helping". I am failing to see the logic here.

Note my reasons for voting Sigurd above.

There's a problem, however. Sigurd ACKNOWLEDGED his mistake and declared that he stood corrected here. Yet you still did not recognize this fact. Again, I believe you are intentionally doing your best to take down innocent vets, so as to cast doubt upon any potential suspicion they might lodge towards you.

Protection, not block, how many times do I have to make this clear? If I hide Person Z in the tunnel and Person A sends in orders to kill Person Z that night, there will be narration. If I hide Person A in the tunnel, thus preventing him from doing anything else, there will be no narration.

Again, you're missing the boat on my argument. The point was, there should have at some point been a writeup of a successful block becaus there's been so many kills.

Secondly, there was a narration of a protection in the thread - it just wasn't successful for whatever reason. Again, I refer you to ATPG's murder description.

Indeed there was an old man. However, you'll have to excuse me as I suspend disbelief that you have no idea why it wasn't "successful".

Thirdly, the "COP OUT" bit. Let me guide you through my thought process yesterday. I roll out of bed, groggy and tired. I skim through the thread and see that woad has been killed. I barely got any sleep that night because my roommate snores like a buzz saw. When you're in that state of mind, there isn't much filter between brain and mouth (fingers?). I'm noting regret out loud that Woadsy died when I considered protecting him the prior night. Give me a break.

You woke up at noon?

See reasons for not voting Reenk above.

You mean the part about how you wanted Reenk lynched without having to actually vote him yourself?

~~~~~~~~~~~~

All right, look. khaan, I don't think you're a mafioso, just horribly misguided. I don't want either of us to get lynched this round. BUT. If it comes down to that, I will shift my vote to you because I am more valuable to the town's cause.

Well, undoubtedly, if you are indeed town, you are more valuable than me. I don't think you are town, however.

Lastly, I ask the town: What are your reasons for doubting me? Do you truly doubt my role, question its alignment, and think it's safe to lynch a role blocker (a doctor and role blocker for God's sake!) just out of precaution, or do you do this just because it's me? Just because I am the role blocker, as opposed to someone like glyphz, or Tevash? Think on that, folks. I am pro-town through and through.

Your behavior and voting patterns tell me otherwise.

NO, we don't, but Khaan only bothered to do so when I pushed the issue - it's as if he's not helping the town willingly. He is a veteran mafia player, and yet he willingly lurks when he knows his analysis could have been more helpful in earlier rounds? Something smells...

I repeat. If I am scum, WHY DID I NOT SAVE MY HIDE, INSTEAD LEAVING MY FATE UP TO A COIN FLIP? WHY DID I NOT VOTE SIGURD? Because I'm an expendable townsperson.

[Lord Winter]

IK seems like a wasted lynch to me. He seems to be making common noobish mistakes, and as such just serves to detract from a real hunt for the mafia. We have no way to read him yet, seeing as he is new.

I'm not sure I buy khaan's reasoning to vote GH. I just can't see a role-blocker being useful to the mafia at all and I am fairly sure Andres would see things a similar way. Perhaps if there were several mafia families this would be a decent role, but in a game with one family I am not so sure.

No wait I thought there were two families in this game?

As for IK noobish mistakes don't give innocence.

But here's the part I really can't get my head around. You blocked Reenk night two. Reenk was not being lynched, in ultimatum. You clearly believed Reenk to be innocent, due to never voting for him. Reenk was claiming a very important role. WHY DID YOU STOP PROTECTING/BLOCKING REENK ROINK? This makes absolutely no sense. Further, that there were no kills on night two suggests that there was, in fact, a block taking place. Look at the number of kills that have been taking place recently. Can one really believe that there was NO blocks on night two? Think about it... Reenk has repeatedly claimed he was "doing way" or wanted to "do away" with various people, obviously claiming he had kill power. TI believe the General blocked Reenk on behalf of his nervous mafia comrades, to attempt to a) stop an attempt on his life, thus exhonerating him, and b) stop Reenk himself. When it became clear the town wasn't taking the bait fast enough, the protection/block stopped, and Reenk was killed by the mafia to eliminate his threat. And here's the curious thing... only after Reenk's blocking do the kills pickup. To me, this is what this means: Reenk started the game with some kind of vigenlante ability. The mafia/other, for whatever reason Andres devised up, had to wait. For what? Who knows.

The alignment of Reenk was always in question during that time, he could have feared that he was some sort of SK and thus hoped that the mafia would do the town works for him. Yet at the same time, the more I try to justify it the more shady it seems, if he was driving the lynch why not block and receive conformation of what he already knew?

Just thinking aloud I'm going to have to go with 'Kahn
Unvote: Ibn-Khaldun

Vote: GeneralHankerchief


Lynching Khan makes no sense. Do we want to discourage people making in depth post?

[ULC]

NO, we don't, but Khaan only bothered to do so when I pushed the issue - it's as if he's not helping the town willingly. He is a veteran mafia player, and yet he willingly lurks when he knows his analysis could have been more helpful in earlier rounds? Something smells...