KH army choices

[Neraeos]

Hi folks,

I was hoping some of you could explain about the Iphikratian reforms from a mechanical standpoint in a KH campaign. Up to now I've been using traditional hoplites as my core line, with thorakitae/thureuphoroi holding the flanks, with archers in the rear protected from cavalry by heavy peltasts or mercenary swordsmen.

Under what circumstances would I use Iphikratian-style soldiers, as opposed to traditional hoplites?

[darkness_rising]

I never really found much reason to include them as I also use classical hoplites as a core, but before I recruited greek noble cavalry I found them useful to outflank the enemy's battle line and chase down skirmishers due to their mobility.

[antisocialmunky]

I. Hoplites have high lethality swords and run fast. C Hoplites have lots of armor and are hard to kill. That's about it.

[Novellus]

Remember that the Iphrikratous Hoplitai are essentially peltasts rearmed LIKE hoplitai, but lack the armor that their classical brethren have. They do a fair job against cavalry, can engage peltastai (assuming they don't run off on you), and can be decent flankers against lower-quality units such as the Deuteroi Phalangatai.

The Thorakitai Hoplitai are the real blessing though. They have Kopis swords with an AP trait that can hack up enemy units and hold a line. These tend to do a better job for me as flankers than even the Thureophoroi or the javelin-armed Thorakitai.

It's your choice though. Remember that the Iphrikratous Hoplitai aren't the greatest when it comes to standing up to enemies or dealing a punch to them. Make sure they use their swords though!

[Neraeos]

Hmmm. So maybe thorakitae hoplitai should hold the flanks instead of the javelin thorakitae? I'm playing a real tough war against Rome on one side and the two big successor empires on the other.

[Watchman]

I. Hoplites have high lethality swords...

Eh, the xiphos they have has the same 0.13 lethality as the spear... methinks you're confusing them with the Massilians (who have the 0.225 longsword instead) there.

[antisocialmunky]

You could use the Thorakitae as well since Javelins in the back do alot of damage. I'd use them as a mobile reserve to plug holes in the main line. I'd really just use this against European armies since Phalanx untis will chew pretty much everything up.

The the new Hoplites also have ridiculously high mass to simulate their retro-phalanx.

[Novellus]

Hmmm. So maybe thorakitae hoplitai should hold the flanks instead of the javelin thorakitae? I'm playing a real tough war against Rome on one side and the two big successor empires on the other.

The Thorakitai Hoplitai are very versatile and one of my favorite units to recruit when I plan on fighting battles where I'm outnumbered. The reason for this is because they have good morale, good attack, and can hold a line against several non-phalanx types. The reason I prefer them over the Thorakitai Hellenic Spearmen is because the javelins don't do the type of damage that I want. Enemy morale seems to recover quickly after the javelins are thrown, even if they strike in the rear of the target. And the Thorakitai Hoplitai don't seem to do the best job at killing off the enemy soldiers in comparison to their Thorakitai Hoplitai variant. It's mainly because of the AP Kopis swords that do the damage, and when guard mode is taken off, they not only engulf flanks, but hack them up. Spear units tend to be much slower at this task when speed is a necessity in some battles.

In Asia Minor, I've held out against Ionians and routed a superior Ptolemaic army thanks in part to the Thorakitai Hoplitai. And their area of recruitment is fairly broad as well. And when fighting against Romans, the units will hold the line even against the Triarii. I believe I've held off their Pedites Extraordinarii as well before, but I would advise keeping an extra unit of cavalry nearby to charge them as the Extraordinarii also have the AP Kopis swords.

By the way, both the Successor Armies AND the Romani ABSOLUTELY HATE the Hippeis Xystophoroi (Greek Noble Cavalry). They are recruitable in the Italian peninsula and parts of Asia Minor. In Italy, take Syracuse and you'll be able to recruit them quickly. And if the Romans have Taras, taking that city will allow you to recruit and retrain them there as well. In Asia Minor, you'll have to take a while to build up the MICs to retrain cavalry. But Pergamon is a very good choice for this. Mytilene does not have cavalry units available like Pergamon, but they have the Thorakitai Hoplitai (you should be able to train Thorakitai Hoplitai by the time you have a MIC sufficient enough to train cavalry in Pergamon).