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Thread: Gamerdude's Guide: Destroying Factions

  1. #1
    Not at all like my Avatar Member gamerdude873's Avatar
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    Default Gamerdude's Guide: Easier way to victory

    For anyone whose been down right frustrated with tackling those really powerful, already well-established nations, and is sick of having to deal with endless stacks of elite soldiers, but just can't find away around it, then you might want to take a peak at this. I've been fighting the Egyptians for quite some time, and I've reduced them to sending levy soldiers at me, with hardly any phalanxes.
    (of course I also play Alex EB, but the principles should be pretty much the same). Here's what i did:

    Tip 1: Before you even go to war, make sure you can afford it. Grab provinces that have mines in them. They'll give you a nice chunk of money to work with. You'll need it.

    Tip 2: Build a navy, destroy the enemy navy, and blockade EVERY FRIGGIN' port you can find. That alone for me knocked out a huge amount of the Egyptian economic base = very few hellenic elite phalanxes.

    Tip 3: Attack the AI's main recruitment centers. One of my new favorite tricks is to build an army that I can afford to lose, but is still potent, put it under the command of an OK general, and raid by using my fleets to carry him farther and faster than the AI can send it's armies after it. Now, it might be nice to hold onto the cities you capture, but I find it much easier to just burn them out, (Enslave, Destroy EVERY BUILDING THAT MIGHT BE OF USE TO YOUR ENEMY WHEN HE GETS IT BACK) and leave, then continue on your rampage. Make sure you definately destroy the BARRACKS, IF ANYTHING. What's the point of all this? well, it sets the enemy back in time, hopefully far behind you, and makes for you boatloads of cash. Literally. A big plus is that by leaving the settlement is that you don't put any money into it's infastructure, but you get a lot out, and the enemy must spend money to rebuild what it lost. (while your at it, try and train a spy or two to stay behind and cause trouble and keep an eye on things when you leave)
    Also, by sending an army away from the main contested territory and opening up a new front, you force the ai to divert reinforcements to meet (or at least try to catch) your rampaging army.

    Edit: Tip 4: Use Junk Armies. Sometimes if i feel that an enemy army is simply too strong or victory will be too costly, I'll send in waves of Akontasti armies to weaken the army beforehand. THese junk armies also make great decoy's, ambushers and are perfect for suicide banzai runs. They have helped me buy time to refit or simply spread the enemy over everywhere, and atrophy once mighty armies into crappy pieces of garbage. Sure, it'll probably take like 3 or 4 or 10 of these stacks to wear them down, but what's it to you? THey're cheap, essentially worthless, and 100% replaceable. Throwaway units do have their place in war, and this is it.

    WHile this method that i use does take some time and cash, it DOES work A LOT. It also might seem basic and obvious, but I never took the time or money to see how it worked before, and i'm amazed. Maybe some other people have ideas they want to share?
    Last edited by gamerdude873; 01-09-2009 at 06:11. Reason: added tip 4
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  2. #2

    Default Re: Gamerdude's Guide: Destroying Factions

    Read somewhere in this forum about someone as Bactria using 2 spies and an assassin to make sele settlements rebel and then take them without going to war with seles. Could use this, maybe not to avoid war, but to further weaken the big faction. Spies and assassins are relatively cheap, and when they make settlements rebel they're being disruptive. If its a big faction theres gonna be some settlements with a big distance penalty which you can exploit.
    Plus, if the settlements rebel to another faction, you're starting wars with other factions. Egypt, for example, could find itself at war on multiple fronts instead of just against you. Those other factions prolly wont do much, but it'll divert a bit of their attention.

    Mind you, i've never actually tried it out. But my guess is it could work.
    Last edited by Elzeda; 01-09-2009 at 04:46.

  3. #3
    Guitar God Member Mediolanicus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gamerdude's Guide: Destroying Factions

    I never destroy factions, I move them around the map once I've defeated them to represent other tribes. Only at the very last of my campaign I kill them (for the VC's).

    One comment on your walkthrough however. Tip 2 doesn't matter. Every faction gets money through the script anyway. If you block their ports they just get less money from trade and more money from the script.
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  4. #4

    Default Re: Gamerdude's Guide: Destroying Factions

    Quote Originally Posted by Mediolanicus View Post
    One comment on your walkthrough however. Tip 2 doesn't matter. Every faction gets money through the script anyway. If you block their ports they just get less money from trade and more money from the script.
    I always thought the script would only compensate for negatives, so you could still cut down the AI's profits. That would be quite a bummer if the whole port blocking strategy would be nullified.
    Can someone explain how exactly the money script works?

    Edit: On another thing: I'm personally very reluctant with destroying every building in a city. Usually I'm planning to get it back sometime and it could cost me decades of construction time to wreck all the buildings, so I only do it in emergency and not as a routine strategy.
    Last edited by Lysimachos; 01-09-2009 at 09:08.
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  5. #5
    Guitar God Member Mediolanicus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gamerdude's Guide: Destroying Factions

    I just did a test with my Romani campaign. The Arverni are down to 3 settlements. 2 are under seige. None of them has a posetive income (~ -1000 to -4000 per turn). Still I was making over 60000 mnai per turn from the protectorate alone (I tested for a year).

    Those mnai must have come from somewhere.
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  6. #6

    Default Re: Gamerdude's Guide: Destroying Factions

    Thank you. It's good to know, although I don't like it.
    Read about glory and decline of the Seleucid Empire... (EB 1.1 AAR)

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  7. #7

    Default Re: Gamerdude's Guide: Destroying Factions

    As I remember the explanation for the AI money script (and it makes sense): you get the brains, the AI gets the mnai. RTW AI is patently incapable of handling the early game economy of any of the factions. If you've noticed, they also get population replenishment for recruiting a unit so they don't have barren wastelands everywhere.
    As for the tips listed, tip 1 is a no-brainer. If you're going to war (not being war dec'd) and you can't afford to build and maintain the sizable troops needed you earned what you get. Tip 2 is useful in the destroying the navy bit to prevent seaborne assault, and I have a hunch (i.e. no systematic testing) that if you blockade a lot of ports the AI will be mildly more reasonable, esp in terms of ceasefires. While the money scipt keeps them afloat, it doesn't enter as actual income into the AI, so all it sees is the increasing red in its ledgers, conveniently not wondering how it still has mnai to spend. Tip 3 is also useful but in large empires, especially the AS, the units you will see spammed are also widely available and the AI tends to build many MICs capable of such recruitment. Plus, the recruitment centers tend to be the Homeland of the big factions and if you can reach it you probably already have the war won. The Ptolies are the big exception since they don't have a large recruitment area for their prime units, but Klerouchs are everywhere and they share MICs with the AS. Razing cities is a good cash cow, but if you plan on coming back better leave some infrastructure. My personally fun gamey tactic when I've gotten positively tired of fighting wave after wave is to go in, raze as much as I can including the gov building, then leave and let it revolt back, staying long enough to ensure outside armies don't march in. This will leave the AI basically crippled and when it does rebuild the gov it can only build Type 3 or 4, which means no more elites. For added fun build the desired gov level yourself and then leave. Tip 4 i would adjust to say yes to cheap armies if you don't mind spamming but try for slightly better or at least varied spam. Akontistai get massacred by FMs in auto-calc (unless you're actually fighting all the spam battles) so adding levy spearmen + levy skirmishers will be far more effective at whittling down super stacks. If you're the Romans that generally means cheap greek hoplite levies + akontistai. Though for a minimal amount more you can just spam Hastati + Principes and be on your merry way with a real army.
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  8. #8

    Default Re: Gamerdude's Guide: Destroying Factions

    Thoose are good ideas.

    I also have one which I would like to add, not the best of all and a little complicated but can be useful. I suspect many already know it.

    The idea is ideal for the case when a large faction keeps attacking you with stack after stack of light troops and levys and you need your army somewhere else and can't afford an elite border guard army to stop there constant raids (most possible with Baktria). However you can train (possibly local) horse archers. (Preferably locals because in most cases there cheaper to upkeep)

    All you need to do is to train and gather about 5-to 10 such units (the number may depend on the size and quallity of the approaching enemys and of course you income) and use them to harras the enemy stacks. Now your objective here is not to defeat them at first. All you want is to kill as many of them as possible and suffer no casualities. In short: empty quivers, retreat, repeat. It does require micromanagement but I believe it is worth it. On the long run you can make then turn back or can destroy them after the 3 or 4 battle (in most cases)

    Some tipps for that micromanagement:
    - Don't add generals or FMs to such an army (unless youre sure to beat them in the first battle) since retreating or loosing a battle gives them bad traits
    - also don't add infantry - will slow the army down
    - add 1-2 medium cavalry if you can afford - they will help break wavering enemies and try to stop there cavalry
    - like sad above you don't need a full stack for max efect - it can be done and it is usefull butt controling them will become more complicated
    - always try to finish of enemy archers, slingers, cavalry, their General (if possible) first - they will be the biggest problem and hinderence to this tactic (by finish of I mean destroy utterly so they probeably won't heal there losses)
    - stay on the high ground and avoid the enemy if they are on a hill and have long range skirmishers.

    The good about it:
    - you will not suffer too many casualities (ideal case: no losses).
    - Such forces are always ready for battle - possibly no need for retraining
    - in most cases there cheaper than a full stack
    - they can gain lots of experience and become more effective
    - are faster than foot troopers and can intercept enemis quickly
    - can be werry amousing

    The bad about it:
    - in most areas where local horse archers are availeable capable archers and slingers are not far and they can reduce the efficency
    - usually HA heavy factions are not far either...
    - you need to be skilled at using HA armies for full effect
    - it's a very VERY bad Idea to aoutocalc such battles. (you know what I mean)
    - it is rather only useable for the factions around Baktria.

    I have tried it a few times and it worked quite well.
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  9. #9
    Xsaçapāvan é Skudra Member Atraphoenix's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gamerdude's Guide: Destroying Factions

    Read somewhere in this forum about someone as Bactria using 2 spies and an assassin to make sele settlements rebel and then take them without going to war with seles.
    Does work with Pahlavans cos AS attacks like crazy wether you attack AS or not so my only suggestion for any of neighbour of AS is just Blitzing AS lands I have no idea but especially AS play very aggresively against Human Players.

    If you blitz AI looks very terrified no idea why BUT AI goes paralized if you blitz. That may be because of AI cannot compete well against fast invasions.

    But I must confess that alex.exe has better AI, and I am tired of fighting endless AI reinforcements of AS


    P.S: I change the victory conditions in EB script so as not kill any faction I just leave AS in asia mimor as a buffer zone state against any treath from west and mostly leave Egypt between me and chartage also armenia and pontus against Sarmatians.
    I am exegerating humanism lol
    Last edited by Atraphoenix; 01-09-2009 at 11:20.



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  10. #10

    Default Re: Gamerdude's Guide: Destroying Factions

    Quote Originally Posted by LordCurlyton View Post
    As I remember the explanation for the AI money script (and it makes sense): you get the brains, the AI gets the mnai.
    I don't complain about financial aid for the AI, I just complain about it making no difference to block ports.
    Read about glory and decline of the Seleucid Empire... (EB 1.1 AAR)

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  11. #11

    Default Re: Gamerdude's Guide: Destroying Factions

    Technically it does. The money script gives set amounts of money, so if you reduce the AI income enough that it goes severely negative then you can kinda sorta reduce its available mnai. Of course, if it gets too negative the script just fires twice. I believe the goal is to ensure the AI has a few k mnai to spend every turn at a minimum. And like I said I have the hunch that blockading does weaken the AI's murderous rage enough to where you can actually get a semi-reasonable cease fire.
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  12. #12
    Not at all like my Avatar Member gamerdude873's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gamerdude's Guide: Destroying Factions

    tip 1 is a no-brainer
    Definately. I just threw that in for those who don't get how to make real dough really fast in EB.

    All I can say about Tip 2 is that it definately helped me. Of that i'm sure. Also, controlling the sea allows you to move armies faster with less trouble. I've lost a couple armies to enemy fleets, and it SUCKED.

    The rampage army idea does work, but i forgot to mention that i use it only if I don't really think i can hold onto the settlement, or i just need to do damage. But more so, by running around destroying everything, letting the enemy get it back, it means that he must suffer the consequences of a settlement with few or no upgrades, and be unable to recruit good soldiers for long while. I came back later and reconquered the cities with little problem, this time with the means to hold onto them.

    All together, this is just really my basic strategy, and i just thought i'd share it. MAybe i should have had a different title
    Last edited by gamerdude873; 01-10-2009 at 06:32.
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  13. #13
    Peerless Senior Member johnhughthom's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gamerdude's Guide: Destroying Factions

    I always have ludicrous amounts of cash and quite often I'll bribe an army deep in enemy territory and send them on kamikaze missions of destruction, taking as many cities and sacking them as they can before they are wiped out.

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