On the benefit of playing RTW for while ...

[Jxrc]

Weird title but it's the correct forum.

I have had a weird experience lately. My old computer was down for quite a while (about eight months cause I could not get it sent back to my dealer). I had a more recent one that could only run RTW. Thus bye bye for MTW during the same period.

Played quite a lot of RTW and actually enjoyed that. Even though I felt that the challenge was not great, I tought the atmosphere was nice.

Got bored eventually and then back to MTW ....

What a bloody disaster

Not being too ambitious, I started with the English (Early/hard). But god did I suck ...

Not only is the change to a "right-click only" system most puzzling but after a few months sending legionaries beating the crap out of anything in their way, good old spearmen and holibars seem rather hard to handle ...

Took Wales in the first few turn and I almost lost though I am sure that an army made of two UM, one spearmen units and three archers and my king to be quite enough to win without too much fuss .... Next target was Scotland, got there with one unit of RK, two holibars, three spears and one archer and happily got butchered I had kind of forgotten than clansmen could wipe the floor with speamen on a good day ... Approach, they chare, before my cavalary has position itself in their back, the spearmen are routing, holibars do the same in a matter of second, general get charged by clansmen coming from three side and dies .... Next year, I bribed my nemesis to spare myself a further humiliation (and got broke for decades as a result) ...

My lack of military skills drove me to hire more troops that I could afford so that my income was 0 after a few years .... Hopefully the French were kind enough to leave me in peace (they must have figured that I was not much of a threat anyway) ...

My salvation came from the good king of Aragon who can always be trusted to attack Aquitaine at some point. He came as expected and, with heavy lossess, I manage to prevail and capture the king and two princes .... Got me a nice 9,000 gold who help me resume construction of income producing buildings ....

Now by 1150, I basically own the normal english mainland (Anjou, Aquitaine, Ireland, Normandy, Mercia, Northemburian, Scotland, Wales, Wessex) ad I have three ships !!!!

After playing the game for six years, it must be one of my worst start ever especially if I take into account the fact that only massive luck helped me go that far (no French or Spanish attack, no ship lost to tempest....)

Conclusion, I you think that you've become too good at MTW, RTW can help you forgetting the basic about economy, rank bonus, flank protection and the like and make MTW challenging again ...

[I of the Storm]

I remember having had the same experience over two years ago. I remember it very clearly as if it was yesterday. I was very embarassed, especially since I started that MTW campaign (english, lost all mainland rather quickly) on normal...

Please don't tell anyone...

[HopAlongBunny]

Conclusion, I you think that you've become too good at MTW, RTW can help you forgetting the basic about economy, rank bonus, flank protection and the like and make MTW challenging again ...

That's what I miss about MTW; if you get cocky and don't pay attention to basics it'll make you pay.

Should have my vid card issues sorted out soon...looking forward to little humble pie

[Ludens]

That's what I miss about MTW; if you get cocky and don't pay attention to basics it'll make you pay.

I had a similar experience when my computer broke down and I went to play some S:TW on the old one. I was never a brilliant S:TW player, but I could reliably beat the A.I. at 1:1, yet after a year of R:TW I was struggling to managa even that. You can ignore many factors in R:TW as long as you are handy with cavalry. In S:TW/M:TW you cannot afford to make mistakes, and cavalry charges will only do so much.

[Jxrc]

Regarding battle, the thing was not really that I had forgotten everything but more that I could not "implement" what I knew ... Moving a row of spearmen and keeping it tidy an all ask for lots of concentration when you are no longer use to it (especilly with the AI that is smart enough to mess with you). "Right click to move", "right click to attack" does not help either ...

For the economy, I just forgot the basics .... Built ports but they do not help with a trade house a small fleet Not like Rome, in which a diplomat and a port are more than enough to get your early cash ...

One thing I also missed was the ability to replenish all units in one turn after a battle ...

But the AI is still helping me out a bit. Last French king has died without heir and has left a massive rebel empire in France and Germany .... Now that I think of the resurgence that is bound to happen, I am not 100% sure that it is that good ... What worries me most is that the Byz are in uber-good shape and have taken all of Russia, left the turks with one province and, more annoying still, wiped out the Italian and left the sicilian stuck on Malta ....

I have a bad feeling about this ...

[gollum]

RTW is a fun game - if one does not expect tactical battles to be the main dish like in MTW/STW.

It has good atmosphere, and the campaign game has infinitely more games within the game to play - i am somewhat surprised that it even has a goal as it works best as a sandbox game - set your own goals following your generals life.

You can concentrate in roleplaying with the battles basically as a part of that.

In MTW the battles are important and especially in STW the battles are almost everything. The common roster that enhcances balance also helps. So does the seasonal campaign and the emphasis on the environment/terrain and weather.

In STW the charge is broken - cavalry does not get the charge bonus - but in MTW it works and if used properly it can be devastating not in kills but in its effect - that is the enemy battle line and/or units rout etc.

In both games you even have to pre-plan and work hard to kill/catch the routers - in RTW a single cavalry unit will get them (almost) all for you even in long battles.

Also missile mounted units require skill to play with in MTW/STW even in SP. In RTW it all happens by it self and horse archers are almost like cheat units - too easy to use and devastating.

Last but not least the RTW AI seems to have lost features, most obviously using the terrain (high ground/woods etc). The only thing that it does well is match up units and also i have to say flank, but the action in vanilla is too fast to notice this. Its best to meddle with the Terrain Modifier file and change the values to be on average at about 0.725 for long/short grass etc than 1.0.

This considerably slows the action down and brings fatigue back into play as well as flanking - most mods set it around 0.825 with higher morale and higher defense values to prolongue melee - but sometimes they overdo it and the melee lasts ages making match ups insignificant and flanking the central gameplay element.

Its obvious that CA wanted the tactical battles dumped down simply by the fact that in the STW/MTW engine unit speed is determined on a per unit basis - this provides great flexibility in order to find the right gameplay pace - not too slow (otherwise theres no RTS dynamics - essentially the game becomes turned based) not too fast (otherwise cant control all units at the height of the action). CA went for the second option, the action is too fast - with the benefit of these to simplify the gameplay greatly as the sophistication in control and meneuvers is no more possible. That was the only way to make TW accessible to a younger audience.

CA in RTW in fact determined unit speed by class of infantry/cavalry and those are hardcoded and not available as parameters. In this way even if modders wanted to find the range of the right pace they have great difficulties.

In MTW the AI is in my opinion generally best with the STW AI a close second.

!it burnsus!

[Fagar]

Coming back to MTW after a period of absence is definately rewarding.
I was OS for about 15 months until last October and basically did not go near a game for that entire time.
When I got back and had some time off one of the first things I did was re-emerse myself in MTW and wasn't it engrossing, getting used to the nuances and the precise AI was great fun, remembering all the buttons was hard enough but refusing to pause during a battle just meant I was getting continually toweled up.
The music, the atmosphere the intrigue and getting punished for any lack of attention.
Immediately fell back in love with MTW again and have played precious little since (only a little Halo 3)