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Thread: Archeologists have found the oldest evidence of chemical warfare

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  1. #1
    Member Member KozaK13's Avatar
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    Default Re: Archeologists have found the oldest evidence of chemical warfare

    How did the persian end up there?

    Would poisoning wells or other water supplies be under scorched earth or chemical warfare?

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  2. #2
    Ming the Merciless is my idol Senior Member Watchman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Archeologists have found the oldest evidence of chemical warfare

    A mine, also sometimes known as a sap. Dug under the walls of the besieged fortress and then deliberately collapsed to bring down sections of the circular defense (IIRC, didn't Dura apparently surrender after a whole section of the wall was lost to such and it became clear the next Persian assault would carry the fortress...?). Standard defender SOP to deal with such was to dig their own countermine to attack and destroy the approaching sap, which was wont to lead to some rather claustrophobic underground melees.

    Engineers could also get seriously diabolically creative if they had access to suitable tools of applied chemistry, incendiary weapons like fire-siphons etc...

    As an aside, mines were still dug under the enemy positions as late as WW1 - although by this point they had for a while now been made rather more potent by the option of piling explosives at the end and blowing those up under the foe's feet...
    Last edited by Watchman; 01-15-2009 at 19:58.
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    Member Member theoldbelgian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Archeologists have found the oldest evidence of chemical warfare

    Quote Originally Posted by Watchman View Post
    A mine, also sometimes known as a sap. Dug under the walls of the besieged fortress and then deliberately collapsed to bring down sections of the circular defense (IIRC, didn't Dura apparently surrender after a whole section of the wall was lost to such and it became clear the next Persian assault would carry the fortress...?). Standard defender SOP to deal with such was to dig their own countermine to attack and destroy the approaching sap, which was wont to lead to some rather claustrophobic underground melees.

    Engineers could also get seriously diabolically creative if they had access to suitable tools of applied chemistry, incendiary weapons like fire-siphons etc...

    As an aside, mines were still dug under the enemy positions as late as WW1 - although by this point they had for a while now been made rather more potent by the option of piling explosives at the end and blowing those up under the foe's feet...
    indeed the finishing amerikan and english assault at ieper was set in by a massive series of explosions
    there are still 3 charges left in the ground wich didn't explode wich by now they lost the lokation of one charge and the others are too unstable to remove

    ive been in that area and you can still see some of the craters

  4. #4
    Ming the Merciless is my idol Senior Member Watchman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Archeologists have found the oldest evidence of chemical warfare

    I know some of the bigger mines the French for example dug were very little indeed short of the standards of full-blown commercial mining operations, with electric lighting, rails and whatnot in the tunnels.

    There's even a fairly famous incident from the American Civil War concerning the unsuccesful attempt to exploit the results of a mine...

    But I digress. Back to Antiquity now.
    "Let us remember that there are multiple theories of Intelligent Design. I and many others around the world are of the strong belief that the universe was created by a Flying Spaghetti Monster. --- Proof of the existence of the FSM, if needed, can be found in the recent uptick of global warming, earthquakes, hurricanes, and other natural disasters. Apparently His Pastaness is to be worshipped in full pirate regalia. The decline in worldwide pirate population over the past 200 years directly corresponds with the increase in global temperature. Here is a graph to illustrate the point."

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    Member Member Lucius Verenus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Archeologists have found the oldest evidence of chemical warfare

    Quote Originally Posted by theoldbelgian View Post
    indeed the finishing amerikan and english assault at ieper was set in by a massive series of explosions
    there are still 3 charges left in the ground wich didn't explode wich by now they lost the lokation of one charge and the others are too unstable to remove

    ive been in that area and you can still see some of the craters

    I think what you are referring to is the 'British' (actually British & Australian) assault on Messines Ridge, prior to the 'Passchendaele' Offensive of 1917

    19 Mines of 22 planned were exploded and the Ridge and rear slope to Wytschaete village taken in a single day, probably the most successful assault on the Western Front up to that time.

    One of the mines was destroyed by German counter mining operations which were also extensive and involved many heavy underground battles - two mines were not exploded as they lay outside the final operations area and I expect those are the ones that are still there.

    Rather like the Romans, there are many soldiers from both sides that went into the tunnels and never came out again.

    As for scale of operations , the British even tried a steam driven drilling monster that got stuck and is also 'down there' somewhere

    http://www.firstworldwar.com/battles/messines.htm (if interested)

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    Member Member phoenixemperor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Archeologists have found the oldest evidence of chemical warfare

    the 'British' (actually British, Australian and New Zealander) assault on Messines Ridge

    Fixed.

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    Member Member theoldbelgian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Archeologists have found the oldest evidence of chemical warfare

    thanks lucius for clearing that up

    it was a while ago since I have been there and my memory was clouded

  8. #8

    Default Re: Archeologists have found the oldest evidence of chemical warfare

    One of those mines under Ploegsteert Wood blew up in the 1950s and killed a few cows. I think there's only one left.
    From Fluvius Camillus for my Alexander screenshot

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    Member Member Lucius Verenus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Archeologists have found the oldest evidence of chemical warfare

    removed double-post
    Last edited by Lucius Verenus; 01-22-2009 at 20:10. Reason: Oops double post removed

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