Fire arrows vs elephants

[oz_wwjd]

Is there a set thing for how many fire arrows barrages it takes to "make an elephant unit panic? I ask because I just was in a battle where 3 timurid stacks sieged my castle,anyways, my archers dealt with the horses as they advanced towards the gates,then 3 elephant units came in,and under heavy fire from 9 yeoman/longbowmen all on fire arrows,they just refused to panic,then they pretty much killed my entire army of armoured swordsmen,and mopped up the archers in no time flat. Also can the Timurids use captured castles to replenish there best units,such as heavy lancers?

[peacemaker]

well, i dont think its set at a specific number of arrow volleys to make them panic. I'm sure the game has a random trigger where the chance of them panicking is increased by fire. Artillery is better for routing elephants, and the best anti-ele gun is definetely the rocket launcher(availiable with mongols/timurids). As for capturing castles, they probably can as long as that castle has a high enough stables building.

[Adrian II]

It's remarkable how people almost never mention my preferred antidote to oliphaunts, namely other oliphaunts. In the Jedah desert two mercenary units can be purchased, a musketeer and an artillery unit. It's great fun to use them opposite the Timurid units. Not at the beginning of the Timurid invasion of course, when Khan Whatshisname has five units at his disposal. But later on when the Tims spread out. If you play these units you will find that they rout easily and that rocket-launcher fire is indeed the best way to rout oliphaunts like peacemaker says.

Once the Tims approach your cities and fortresses, make sure to raise some Naffatun for these are extremely effective at routing oliphaunts when places on top of the walls (even on the stumps of walls that remain after heavy bombardment). Just keep them off the ground level and out of harm's way for Naffatun themselves have a tendency to rout very quickly.

Btw if you attack an enemy fortress and have trouble taking the inner ring of fortifications, try inserting a unit of Naffatun onto the enemy wall. Sit back and watch the deadly effect.

[Old Geezer]

Flaming ballista bolts work well. The enemy used them once against my rented elephants which almost immediately ran amok. Accurate long range artillery is very effective. Repeated charged into the rear of elephants by Hospitalers can do significant damage. I have found archers using flaming arrows to be effective only when defending walls. Using pikes with secondary weapons removed by modding works the best of any infantry but requires good morale and the pikemen should be advancing into the elephants; if you can catch them in the flank or rear in a pincher they drop at an alarming rate. The greatest problem is catching up with them to get into position to do so. I formed a wall of pikemen accross my front and advanced in a line towards them. This was a most difficult task for me to accomplish as it requires so much micro management. A very good general is really necessary as are a few fast horse such as Alans and good cannons. Also, it is much easier if the Timurids must attack you. A bridge defense should be much easier but not nearly as easy as against the Mongols. Using the Scots is probably the only feasible faction to use pikemen because by the time the Timurids arrive you will have many advanced level 7 or more units - your whole force had better be gold or it will ge gone fast.

[PBI]

I find the problem with elephants, especially in field battles, is not so much killing them as getting close enough to them and engaging them in combat for long enough to actually get it done. I find the Timurids tend to be very protective of elephants, keeping them at their maximum range and only closing in once your army is routing; since you have to approach them under heavy fire, and with the baleful effects of the elephants' own guns and the high-dread Timurid generals, I usually find most units rout before getting close enough to do any damage. I find this is the problem with using pikemen, naffatun, foot javelins or even archers; in principle they should work, but they won't get close enough for long enough to do the job. Artillery is more effective, but I find that since you will generally be using it at maximum range, it is pot luck whether you will actually hit any elephants. The game claims that fire arrows and muskets are good for causing elephants to panic, but in my experience I have never seen it happen except when I have had something else actually causing casualties to the elephants (which neither arrows nor muskets will ever do).

My preferred anti-elephant solution is javelin cavalry. They have the speed to get to the elephants quickly, avoid most of the fire from the cannons, and avoid being caught up by the main Timurid force, while their javelins will quickly kill off the elephants once they are in range. Plus, they are generally cheap, can be trained in large numbers and travel to the front quickly (as opposed to the slow, expensive, rare cannons which IMHO are too valuable and hard to replace to waste on a suicide mission).

Incidentally, good to see you around again Old Geezer. Am I right in thinking you've been away for a while?

[Old Geezer]

Yes, PBI, I retired in Sept. and went to the Rockies for 7 weeks and then babysitting grandchildren. Turned off my internet until Feb and now I am itching to start a game as the Spanish or Portugese and spear me some elephants to barbeque. Do you play with unlimited ammo? Seems to me that the last time I used Jinetes that they were always running out of javelins too soon. Perhaps not letting them fire at will would help. The AI Jinetes never ever seem to run out of ammo.

[PBI]

No need for unlimited ammo, just lots of jinettes; cheap, plentiful light horsemen are after all a renewable resource . Yes, you definitely need to turn off fire at will, those javelins are too valuable to waste on infantry or some such, they are only for the elephants. Any left over after the elephants are all dead can be put to good use on those Timurid Jedi bodyguards, but as long as there are elephants left the javelins shouldn't be used for anything else.

I tend to favour hit-and-run attacks with about a quarter stack of jav cav. Get in, kill the elephants, and if possible take out any enemy siege weapons as a bonus once the elephants are dead, then withdraw.

[Old Geezer]

So you are not using high chevroned jinetes for this but just sending in "expendable" elephant fodder to do what dammage you can? And do you just use about 5 units of jinettes then because they are easier to maneuver and control?

I am starting a game as the Portugal but must remember to check and make sure that I have removed the Adventuros' secondary weapons. If they perform as well as the Scots' pikemen do then fighting the Timurids should prove to be no challenge at all.