Your favourite historical personality

[Jolt]

His administrative, political, and leadership skills weren't that great, but he was a respected warrior at the time, and he probably killed more than the SGZ credits him for.


I didn't bother finishing the first volume of the novel, I didn't enjoy it at all, especially after finding out about its historical inaccuracies.

Agreed, compared to the other strategists of the time. It's a shame his successor was not as talented...

I believe Jiang Wei was a great strategist of his own time as well.
Heck, the administration Kongming left to Liu Shan was comprised of great men (Jiang Wan, Jiang Wei, Fei Yi, Dong Yun, etc). Only when these started dieing, and incompetent men took their place, the corruption in Shu (Which was already high by the time of the Northern Expeditions) rose gigantically. But Shu never had a chance against Wei, even with Zhuge Liang. I believe the defining moment was the death of Pang Tong. If Pang Tong hadn't died, I'd reckon things would have turned out differently. If Zhuge Liang attacked from Jing (Which is hard to believe that Zhuge Liang would lose to Wu) and Pang Tong from Yi, and Sun Quan sent his men through Hefei, something of notice could be achieved. Whereas isolated attacks by Zhuge Liang, through difficult terrain, against an Empire far more populous and productive than Shu, was doomed from the start. Only Zhuge's remarkable talent managed to put Wei on the defensive.

[lenin96]

Vladimir Lenin, he made the U.S.S.R and Soviet Communism.

[The New Che Guevara]

Vladimir Lenin, he made the U.S.S.R and Soviet Communism.

well... there's more to it than that... but I'd agree. It's more soviet socialism but none the less...

Ernesto "Che" Guevara.

the name kinda gives it away... just realised...

The man was amazing... did more to help the peoples of the world, after cuba, went to the Congo to inspire revolution with the guerilla troops there, after that failed... he hid in europe. Then came back to Cuba and then to Bolivia where the capitalist dogs made a mockery of his death.

But others might disagree, there are clips of Che helping out in factories, and he was a general (sort of). He shot himself in the foot literally (at the bay of pigs invasion), dedicated himself to the cause. Disliked the soviet attitude especially to the Cuban Missile Crisis (ah Khrushchev...). Ironically through his death, he has become an icon for the revolution... which people sadly use without knowing his full story. He was an excellent orator, cared for the people, he was a doctor and had a huge library behind him from Marx to Cervantes...

Overall, a modern day hero and a symbol that the cause of communism will never die.

[PanzerJaeger]

well... there's more to it than that... but I'd agree. It's more soviet socialism but none the less...

Ernesto "Che" Guevara.

the name kinda gives it away... just realised...

The man was amazing... did more to help the peoples of the world, after cuba, went to the Congo to inspire revolution with the guerilla troops there, after that failed... he hid in europe. Then came back to Cuba and then to Bolivia where the capitalist dogs made a mockery of his death.

But others might disagree, there are clips of Che helping out in factories, and he was a general (sort of). He shot himself in the foot literally (at the bay of pigs invasion), dedicated himself to the cause. Disliked the soviet attitude especially to the Cuban Missile Crisis (ah Khrushchev...). Ironically through his death, he has become an icon for the revolution... which people sadly use without knowing his full story. He was an excellent orator, cared for the people, he was a doctor and had a huge library behind him from Marx to Cervantes...

Overall, a modern day hero and a symbol that the cause of communism will never die.

And he also loooooved ripping people's fingernails out! Great guy he was...

[Strike For The South]

And he also loooooved ripping people's fingernails out! Great guy he was...

Don't forget the mass killing of political dissidents and blacks. What a great guy!

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Don't forget the mass killing of political dissidents and blacks. What a great guy!

Or overcrowding political prisoners into spaces meant for less than half of their number! Or getting personal pleasure from ordering or carrying out executions!

The list goes on. And lenin96, we can do precisely the same thing for your choice.

Disliked the soviet attitude especially to the Cuban Missile Crisis

Yes, he never quite thought the Soviets were radical enough...

[lenin96]

Or overcrowding political prisoners into spaces meant for less than half of their number! Or getting personal pleasure from ordering or carrying out executions!

The list goes on. And lenin96, we can do precisely the same thing for your choice.



Yes, he never quite thought the Soviets were radical enough...

Most of the time it doesn't matter what someone does but why someone does something, you could say killing is always bad, no, the Tzar died and there wasn't much wrong with that, because all of that reasonless opression something had to be done about it. Now in Soviet times you could say people were opressed, if they were it didn't matter because they were helping Socialism, it doesn't really matter what you do to help Socialism, what matters is its effectiveness.

[Paradox]

I believe Jiang Wei was a great strategist of his own time as well.
Heck, the administration Kongming left to Liu Shan was comprised of great men (Jiang Wan, Jiang Wei, Fei Yi, Dong Yun, etc). Only when these started dieing, and incompetent men took their place, the corruption in Shu (Which was already high by the time of the Northern Expeditions) rose gigantically. But Shu never had a chance against Wei, even with Zhuge Liang. I believe the defining moment was the death of Pang Tong. If Pang Tong hadn't died, I'd reckon things would have turned out differently. If Zhuge Liang attacked from Jing (Which is hard to believe that Zhuge Liang would lose to Wu) and Pang Tong from Yi, and Sun Quan sent his men through Hefei, something of notice could be achieved. Whereas isolated attacks by Zhuge Liang, through difficult terrain, against an Empire far more populous and productive than Shu, was doomed from the start. Only Zhuge's remarkable talent managed to put Wei on the defensive.

Zhuge Liang did not entrust Jiang Wei with anything, at least not as much as the others you mentioned. He was so obsessed with something he couldn't achieve. Jiang Wei became obsessed with the attack, perhaps for fame as the popular theory proclaims or another reason, he exhausted the state, drove the people to revolt and failed his duty to the court and his officers by failing to throw weight behind Zhang Yi and Qiao Zhou. The death of Pang Tong was a great loss, but the fate of Shu was not entirely at his hands, recall Shu's incompetent officers and unnecessary invasions which cost them dearly.

[LittleGrizzly]

Well that was odd, several conquerer, facists and all round killers are named without objection (cept STFS's one) the second a communist is named several posters question the choice... if i didn't know better i may suggest some kind of bias is present...

[PanzerJaeger]

Well that was odd, several conquerer, facists and all round killers are named without objection (cept STFS's one) the second a communist is named several posters question the choice... if i didn't know better i may suggest some kind of bias is present...

I think it was more the rationale for his choice, not the choice itself.

For example, I've recently been doing as much reading as I can on Walter Model - German general, committed Nazi, and an all around bastard to everyone around him.

His martial skills and devotion to the causes he believed in fascinates me, but I would never portray him as a "hero to the people" or an "amazing man".

Che had some interesting, and even admirable qualities about him, but our own Che’s description was a total whitewashing.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Well that was odd, several conquerer, facists and all round killers are named without objection (cept STFS's one) the second a communist is named several posters question the choice... if i didn't know better i may suggest some kind of bias is present...

I'm sorry, where are the fascists?

[hoom]

Gandhi.

[rabcarl]

I'm not sure if I have a favorite, but there are some that I really like. (and of course there's no way I could come close to the entire list)

European (no particular order)

Alexander the Great
Frederick Barbarosa
Julius Cesar
William the Conqueror
Thomas Aquinas
Queen Elizabeth I
William Shakespeare
Ancient Greeks! (too many to list lol)
Other:
Patton
Ronald Regan
Henry Ford
Nikola Tesla
Thomas Edison
Albert Einstein

And for the controversial one:
Adolf Hitler. While I know that there were parts of him that were terrible, I still have fascination for a man who can subdue an entire people to his will. He was an amazing orator and if he had not had his deep shortcomings could have been more respectable such as Napoleon. A good example that no matter how evil someone is, they still have admirable qualities.