Very heavy mistranslations, the movie completely misinterprated the Qur'an and so did Wilders.
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Very heavy mistranslations, the movie completely misinterprated the Qur'an and so did Wilders.
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Movie is just a compilation of images that were filmed by people who apparently misinterpetated the Qur'an as well. Maybe they do maybe they don't not my problem either way.Originally Posted by Fahad I
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The potential for improper translation is the reason why, if I recall correctly, it is Islamic doctrine that the Qur'an should not be translated, but that a seeker of knowledge should acquire the language skills necessary to learn from it in the original form. Am I right in suggesting this?
"The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman
"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken
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Not necessarily. The Qur'an can be translated in any language, as long as the translations are accurate and precise, with no fabrications and snippets.
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Which means it can't be translated. Or more likely, it depends on the how many soldiers are controlled by the person evaluating the translation.
Last edited by Vladimir; 01-23-2009 at 17:23.
Reinvent the British and you get a global finance center, edible food and better service. Reinvent the French and you may just get more Germans.
Ik hou van ferme grieten en dikke pinten
Down with dried flowers!
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
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What does intifada mean ?Van Bommel did call for an intifada.
So simpleHe claimed he didn't hear it, wich I find hard to believe because the camera in front of him recorded the chanting behind him perfectly fine.
the camera was in front of him and it recorded what was behind him .
errrrrr......which way do a humans ears point ? what were the people next to his ears shouting ?
So Fenring what do psychoacoustics and auditory masking mean ?
If you find something hard to believe you must have some basis for it eh
If you have no basis then you are just pissing into the wind .
Almost Seamus , its not that it shouldn't be translated its that translations have no real standing .The potential for improper translation is the reason why, if I recall correctly, it is Islamic doctrine that the Qur'an should not be translated
Last edited by Tribesman; 01-23-2009 at 17:32.
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Another, academic, point.
What is more important: The literal definition of a word; how it is perceived; or the actions that result from it?
Jihad!
Reinvent the British and you get a global finance center, edible food and better service. Reinvent the French and you may just get more Germans.
Ik hou van ferme grieten en dikke pinten
Down with dried flowers!
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
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An important point .Another, academic, point.
Since he condemned violence both by the Israelis and Palestinians does his use of the word mean he supports the violent version of intifada which he had just condemned or the non-violent version of intifada ?
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He wasn't wrong of course, IIRC it means "uprising" or something along those lines. But the vast majority of people associate the word with violence. He claims that he didn't intend that particular meaning, and instead claims to have been an incredible jackass.
Yes, I'm aware of the argument. I just think it's far, far more probable that he did hear and didn't care.So simple
the camera was in front of him and it recorded what was behind him .
errrrrr......which way do a humans ears point ? what were the people next to his ears shouting ?
So Fenring what do psychoacoustics and auditory masking mean ?
If you find something hard to believe you must have some basis for it eh
If you have no basis then you are just pissing into the wind .
It was nice to see Gretta Duisenberg again in the news though, and without putting her own foot in her mouth this time.
EDIT: to clarify, I don't think anything Van Bommel did is worthy of punishment.
Last edited by Kralizec; 01-23-2009 at 18:19.
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The ignorance surrounding it.
Last edited by Paradox; 01-23-2009 at 20:16.
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If freedom of speech does not extend to and past the speech used by Wilders, to protect that which everyone may consider vulgar, improper, and offensive, it is meaningless.
CR
Ja Mata, Tosa.
The poorest man may in his cottage bid defiance to all the forces of the Crown. It may be frail; its roof may shake; the wind may blow through it; the storm may enter; the rain may enter; but the King of England cannot enter – all his force dares not cross the threshold of the ruined tenement! - William Pitt the Elder
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The bloody trouble is we are only alive when we’re half dead trying to get a paragraph right. - Paul Scott
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As long as we can ban certain hair-do's, I'm all OK with that.
Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban
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Like Bill Maher once brilliantly put it: "I always say that Islam is a religion of peace, otherwise they'll kill me."
"And if the people raise a great howl against my barbarity and cruelty, I will answer that war is war and not popularity seeking. If they want peace, they and their relatives must stop the war." - William Tecumseh Sherman
“The market, like the Lord, helps those who help themselves. But unlike the Lord, the market does not forgive those who know not what they do.” - Warren Buffett
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If that's true then he can build a case for the latter.
Ignorance is the enemy of us all, my friend.The ignorance surrounding it.
Reinvent the British and you get a global finance center, edible food and better service. Reinvent the French and you may just get more Germans.
Ik hou van ferme grieten en dikke pinten
Down with dried flowers!
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
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An important lesson Vlad .If that's true then he can build a case for the latter.
When a certain person makes claims concering some politicians , police , laws and religions it is fairly safe to work on the assumption that what they have written probably is not really true , also when they provide a link to a news story and tell you what it says it is better to read it because there is a high probability that it doesn't actually say what they claim it does .
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His video is at the end.
http://ezralevant.com/2009/01/hollan...cide-note.html
Very tame. Oh well such is appeasement.
There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford
My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.
I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.
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I read your article Strike, and have a couple of points:
Absolutely not. Wilders has many views wich have nothing to do with liberalism, the foremost being that he wants to ban books. The man is a reactionary populist.Wilders is a....radical liberal
This is a reasonable point, sort of. It's about time a court establishes in an actual criminal procedure that what Wilders did isn't punishable, one of the benefits being that it actually sends out a signal unlike simple non-prosecution. If only I were so confident.(from the court publication) According to the Court of Appeal the instigation of hatred in a democratic society constitutes such a serious matter that a general interest is at stake in order to draw a clear boundary in the public debate.
It's extremely unlikely that if punishment follows, it will be worse than a fine of maybe a couple of hundred bucks. Wilders would go on as he were but with a badge of "martyrhood". I expect that he's very happy with the way things are going so far.What a disgusting victory for fascism and censorship and Muslim fundamentalism.
Perhaps they're trying to run him out of town like they did Ayan Hirsi Ali.
(and I'm not laughing because it's a witty comparison)
Last edited by Kralizec; 01-24-2009 at 23:20.
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Wilders' prosecution is perfectly justified. To compare a natural disaster with the immigration of people who want to build up a future in this country is disgusting.
Last edited by Hax; 01-25-2009 at 00:52.
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Think about this one: if I said that social-democracy is a vile ideology, would I be prosecuted? Would enough people feel personally insulted to make that happen?
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So?
Are you saying we should ban speech the majority considers disgusting?
CR
Ja Mata, Tosa.
The poorest man may in his cottage bid defiance to all the forces of the Crown. It may be frail; its roof may shake; the wind may blow through it; the storm may enter; the rain may enter; but the King of England cannot enter – all his force dares not cross the threshold of the ruined tenement! - William Pitt the Elder
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Did the Romans debate the same about the Goths?To compare a natural disaster with the immigration of people who want to build up a future in this country is disgusting.
"Nietzsche is dead" - God
"I agree, although I support China I support anyone discovering things for Science and humanity." - lenin96
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Have you just been dumped?
I ask because it's usually something like that which causes outbursts like this, needless to say I dissagree completely.
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Are you saying we should exterminate them because we are the "superior" culture? That I can't agree with. If muslims want to run there own countries with shira law and backwards thinking that is there deal. I don't care how many women they stone for being raped or men they behead for being gay. That is there deal.
I don't need to export my republic, If people want it they can come over.
The problem becomes when they go over to Europe and demand that there world view be imposed on the older majority. You immigrate you assimilate thats how these things work.
Values aren't values if you throw to the wind because you are scared of a bully. Its funny how the same people who mock Christianity are the same people who cower in fear whenever Islam is mentioned. I guess it's just easier to kick a dog when it's down or ya knowwww wont kill you.
There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford
My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.
I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.
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Actually yes they did half of the senate was of barbarian origin by the time rome was sacked, it never fell like most people think. Rome is somewhat of a bad example those were centuries of transformation not decades.
Last edited by Fragony; 01-25-2009 at 04:29.
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Update, now the second biggest party of the Netherlands if elections would be held. Told you so
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?
http://www.nu.nl/algemeen/1905396/pv...n-peiling.html (Dutch)
a shared third place with the VVD, according to this poll.
I'm pleasantly surprised that few people here think that this was a good idea. If only our parliament was more like the backroom
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Why ruin the beauty of it with cold hard and undisputed facts? My bad third it is?
http://www.nu.nl/algemeen/1905396/pv...n-peiling.html (Dutch)
a shared third place with the VVD, according to this poll.
I'm pleasantly surprised that few people here think that this was a good idea. If only our parliament was more like the backroom
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJKRF2uB8xU
Way to go Pat Condell. Yep shame on us but this is great fun actually. Multicultural desire has replaced all rational thought and they assume everybody craves it just as much as they do. The multicultural left is radicalising. Good.
Last edited by Fragony; 01-25-2009 at 16:15.
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