so as Sir Beane is taking a break, I must find more threads :)

Well I think England is probably the winner so to speak, though each had better in differrent circumstances.

Make no mistake the Ottomans, probably next to Russia are the largest army numerically but ever since the Seige of Malta and Seige of Constantinople there has been no unified muslim front, which was the Ottomans strong point (and christian mercanries).

As time goes on they become more divided along class lines and out teched by nearly everyone. Even in WW1 there contributions hardly compare to that of other major nations.

This is the beginning of the end for the Ottoman Empire really.

Which would be clearly shown......if we had......a demo (see......i'm good :) )