Hellenistic rulers: conceivable epithets

[Lysimachos]

I will surely come back to some of the already mentioned, once it is time, but now I have another one:

What would be "the killer/murderer"?

[Maion Maroneios]

I will surely come back to some of the already mentioned, once it is time, but now I have another one:

Cool

What would be "the killer/murderer"?

That would be Phoneus (ΦΟΝΕΥΣ)

Maion

[antisocialmunky]

καυστήρας γατακιών

[Lysimachos]

Cool


That would be Phoneus (ΦΟΝΕΥΣ)

Maion

Thank you, again
Although you might not remember when the time has come to use the epithets, because I'm planning my AAR in generations rather than updates right now

While we are at it - did we have these:
The Beautiful/Handsome
The Ugly
The Hesitant
The Seefarer
The Wise
The Pious/Devout

καυστήρας γατακιών

Would you please provide translations with your posts? This is not really helpful
Not to imply it would be helpful if there were a translation...

[Maion Maroneios]

Thank you, again
Although you might not remember when the time has come to use the epithets, because I'm planning my AAR in generations rather than updates right now

Aha, that's cool.

While we are at it - did we have these:
The Beautiful/Handsome - As discussed befrore, that would be Kalos (ΚΑΛΟΣ)
The Ugly - Aischros (ΑΙΣΧΡΟΣ)
The Hesitant - Distazon (ΔΙΣΤΑΖΩΝ)
The Seefarer - Nautes (ΝΑΥΤΕΣ)
The Wise - Sophos (ΣΟΦΟΣ)
The Pious/Devout - Eusebes (ΕΥΣΕΒΗΣ)

Would you please provide translations with your posts? This is not really helpful
Not to imply it would be helpful if there were a translation...

That would be 'Burner of cats'

Maion

[Βελισάριος]

So if "The slayer of barbarians" is "Barbaroktonos (ΒΑΡΒΑΡΟΚΤΟΝΟΣ)" then the Slayer of Celts would be Keltoktonos?
[That, by the way, was historically Burebista (or Buruista)'s nickname]

Oh, and what about "Nautes" in feminine? (OK, the reason I keep asking for names in feminine is because I'm making a collection for Greek ship names... taking notes for an Argonaut AAR :p)

[HunGeneral]

This thread is really becoming great.

Did the ancient hellenes have an Epithet for
"the lion"
"ruler of all hellenes" - in this case not just of thoose in hellas but of all Hellenes in the world.
"lord of all the seas and land under the sky" - I bit fantasy like but is there a similar term?

I would also have another question: could anyone tell me how expressions like "Europe of the Seleucids", "Europe of the nomads", "horsemen of the east", "horsemen of hades" might have sounded like in ancient Greek. (I quess my fantasy got a bit too loose)

[machinor]

This thread is really becoming great.

Did the ancient hellenes have an Epithet for
"the lion"
"ruler of all hellenes" - in this case not just of thoose in hellas but of all Hellenes in the world.
"lord of all the seas and land under the sky" - I bit fantasy like but is there a similar term?

I would also have another question: could anyone tell me how expressions like "Europe of the Seleucids", "Europe of the nomads", "horsemen of the east", "horsemen of hades" might have sounded like in ancient Greek. (I quess my fantasy got a bit too loose)

IIRC, "Lion" would be "Leonidas" (ΛΕΟΝΙΔΑΣ). "Ruler of all Hellenes" would probably be "Hellenokrator" (ΈΛΛΗΝΟΚΡΑΤΩΡ).

[Maion Maroneios]

So if "The slayer of barbarians" is "Barbaroktonos (ΒΑΡΒΑΡΟΚΤΟΝΟΣ)" then the Slayer of Celts would be Keltoktonos?
[That, by the way, was historically Burebista (or Buruista)'s nickname]

Oh, and what about "Nautes" in feminine? (OK, the reason I keep asking for names in feminine is because I'm making a collection for Greek ship names... taking notes for an Argonaut AAR :p)

Keltoktonos is correct. Don't know about Burebista. As for Nautes, really I'm not sure. I know how it is in modern Greek, though I'm not sure about ancient.

This thread is really becoming great.

Did the ancient hellenes have an Epithet for
"the lion"
"ruler of all hellenes" - in this case not just of thoose in hellas but of all Hellenes in the world.
"lord of all the seas and land under the sky" - I bit fantasy like but is there a similar term?

I would also have another question: could anyone tell me how expressions like "Europe of the Seleucids", "Europe of the nomads", "horsemen of the east", "horsemen of hades" might have sounded like in ancient Greek. (I quess my fantasy got a bit too loose)

The Lion - Leon
Ruler of the Hellenes - Hellenokrator (ΕΛΛΗΝΟΚΡΑΤΩΡ)
Ruler of the seas - Thalassokrator (ΘΑΛΑΣΣΟΚΡΑΤΩΡ)
Ruler of the land/world - Gaiokrator/Kosmokrator (ΓΑΙΟΚΡΑΤΩΡ/ΚΟΣΜΟΚΡΑΤΩΡ)
Europe of the Seleucids/Nomads - He ton Seleukeidon/Nomadon Europe (Η ΤΩΝ ΣΕΛΕΥΚΕΙΔΩΝ/ΝΟΜΑΔΩΝ ΕΥΡΩΠΗ)
Horsemen of the East - Asiatikoi Hippeis or Hippeis ex Asias (ΑΣΙΑΤΙΚΟΙ ΙΠΠΕΙΣ, ΙΠΠΕΙΣ ΕΞ ΑΣΙΑΣ)
Horsemen of Hades - Hadou Hippeis (ΑΔΟΥ ΙΠΠΕΙΣ)

IIRC, "Lion" would be "Leonidas" (ΛΕΟΝΙΔΑΣ). "Ruler of all Hellenes" would probably be "Hellenokrator" (ΈΛΛΗΝΟΚΡΑΤΩΡ).

Actually, Leonidas (ΛΕΩΝΙΔΑΣ, with an 'omega') is name with reference to a lion.

Maion

[Βελισάριος]

I vote we sticky this thread.
Thanks again, Maion. Burebista was the uniter of the Getai tribes, contemporary to Caesar, in case you were curious.

As for Nautes... what would it be in modern Greek, then? (feminine too)

[Maion Maroneios]

Aha, I see. As for the last thing, that would be Nautissa.

Maion

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

Ooops, before I forget: I wanted to give my armies epithets too. Iirc, an army is stratos, right? What would be...

"the Western" (because they have fought at the Pillars of Herakles, pretty big thing for them)? Hesperios perhaps?

"the First (Created)"? Protogonos?

"the Royal / King's Own"? OK that must be Basilikos

"the Loyal / Reliable"?

"the Armoured"? Kataphraktos?

[Maion Maroneios]

Ooops, before I forget: I wanted to give my armies epithets too. Iirc, an army is stratos, right?

Yep,that's right.

"the Western" (because they have fought at the Pillars of Herakles, pretty big thing for them)? Hesperios perhaps?

Well, Hesperia was the name the Hellenes gave to America. West is Dyse (ΔΥΣΗ), so maybe it could be Dytikos Stratos, or Western Army

"the First (Created)"? Protogonos?

Protogonos means 'of the first generation'. Now create is 'poio' (ΠΟΙΩ), so I believe it should be Stratos Protopoiethes (ΠΡΩΤΟΠΟΙΗΘΗΣ).

"the Royal / King's Own"? OK that must be Basilikos

Yes, Basilikos Stratos is fine.

"the Loyal / Reliable"?

Pistos Stratos

"the Armoured"? Kataphraktos?

Well, Kataphraktos means 'armored all over'. But it can be used. In that case, it would be, as you correctly stated, Stratos Kataphraktos.

Maion

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

Well, there is the "Periegesis Aithiopion Hesperion", that's why I thought that. The Greeks knew America???

Thank you very much Maion.

[Tellos Athenaios]

I don't think so. But the mythological theme of a distant country separated from the rest of the world by a non-trivial barrier (mountains, deserts, seas) is quite common (the Chinese have their stories about such a country in their West; the Christians later had a story about a certain Presbyterian John somewhere too...) . Anyway back to this 'Hesperia' (night) country, IIRC it is the topos of one of the 12 tasks (if I am not mistaken, the one in which Herakles must fetch apples from the tree given to Hera as a wedding present).

[Maion Maroneios]

Well, you might not think so but I won't go in debate with you (or anyone for that matter) about this topic. As for Hesperia, it means afternoon. Night is Nyx. What you said about the Heracles-thing is true though.

Maion

[Βελισάριος]

Ok, so... if lion is Leon, then "The Lion" would be... ?
And what about: The Bull, The Gryphon? The Serpent?

[Olaf Blackeyes]

Umm what about
1.the demon?
2.the bringer of death?
3.The Greek word for America?
4.the colored/rainbowed one?
5.the restorer?
6.the insane?

[desert]

the colored/rainbowed one?

Lolwut? Has one of your FMs been "putting the lime in the coconut"?

How would you say "the Beer-Drinker"?

[Olaf Blackeyes]

Sorry im got some AWESOME weed right now so yeah...
LOL just kidding

[Maion Maroneios]

Ok, so... if lion is Leon, then "The Lion" would be... ?
And what about: The Bull, The Gryphon? The Serpent?

The Lion would be Leon. Plain, no added stuff. As for Serpent, that would probably be Echydna. Don't know about Gryphon. Anyway, none of them would be used as an epithet for a ruler, mind you. Too fantasy-style if you get me.

Umm what about
1.the demon - Not very sure about that one
2.the bringer of death - You are very into dark stuff aren't you? Anyway, Aggeliaphoros Thanatou (Messenger of Death) or Thanatophoros
3.The Greek word for America - Esperia
4.the colored/rainbowed one - Polychrous (many-colored) could probably work.
5.the restorer - Could you make this more specific?
6.the insane? - Epimanes

Maion

[Maion Maroneios]

A small thing I remembered: I don't actually know how the Hellenes called beer (today we call it Mpira), but it has probably something to do with zythos. I'll be back on this one if someone doesn't answer this.

Maion

[mini]

Pansy should definitely be included.

[machinor]

Demon would probably simply be Daimon as demon is derived from the Greek word, although "daimon" has a far broader meaining then simply "demon".

[Olaf Blackeyes]

When i say restorer i mean like restorer of peace/of empire/of good times for all.

[Tellos Athenaios]

@Maion: 'brutikos'? (As an aside, you are correct: hesperia isn't 'night' rather 'twilight' -> 'evening'.)

A serpent is a drakon, from which, yes, a dragon gets its name. But Serpent does, at least in mythology, not bear the same conotations as it does today; don't think it would be used as an epiteth quite the opposite in fact. (Erichthonios, anyone?)

[Maion Maroneios]

Demon would probably simply be Daimon as demon is derived from the Greek word, although "daimon" has a far broader meaining then simply "demon".

Daimon means 'God' in Ancient Greek, even if it seems correct. You see, later on it got the meaning of 'evil'.

When i say restorer i mean like restorer of peace/of empire/of good times for all.

I'll get back to that

Maion

[machinor]

Yeah, but "daimon" could also mean "soul", als in "eudaimonia" or "daimonion" (Sokrates' word for "conscience"). My Greek teacher explained to us that the "basic meaning" connecting all those different meanings was something like "supernatural force or entities that influences men". This also applied to lesser deities or supernatural beings (the major gods were usually called theoi) like demons etc. That was the reason it was applied to the christian concept of demons, since they also could influence men through possessing them.

However, you state of course correctly, that "daimon" would not really have the same connotation as our christian influenced understanding of "demon".

[Maion Maroneios]

Exactly. Your points are 100% correct, but I don't want to bother most people here with specific stuff. Especially when it comes to a language as tricky as Ancient Greek

Maion

[machinor]

Hehehe. So I thought our understanding of "demon" would probably be translated into something like "bad daimon" or something like that. "kakon daimon" or something or maybe even "of bad daimon" like "having a bad soul" wich could fit with the metaphor of being a demon.
Just brainstorming...