The Emerging Factions (Rebels and Revolutions)

**lenin96** · 01-27-2009, 04:39

I was a bit anoyed when CA said that when the people rebel they will always want a Republic, surly not all people in these times wanted a Republic, like Prussia for example.

**Polemists** · 01-27-2009, 07:38

I agree...mobs should have individual desires....like a mob of CA fans...who desire.......a demo

Sooner or later CA will see these posts :P on to topic

I don't think they will all went republic, I mean when nobles revolt they should desire to go back, and peasants the desire to go forward.

So if peasants uprise they want the next liberty stage Monarchy=Parlimentary/Constitutional, P/C=Republic.

If nobles uprise they want the older ways, so Republic=P/C and Monarchy=Parliment.

because if your a noble, why would you want the people to have more power?

**Sir Beane** · 01-27-2009, 11:56

I can only ever see the people wanting to put a king on the throne if they had jiust suffered through a spectacularly poorly run democracy and had fond memories of the old king. Otherwise putting a king on the throne is like shotting yourself in the foot for the common person.

Under a Consitutional Monarchy or a Republic the people have rights, a vote and a say in things. Under a monarchy they have no rights at all, except those they can claim at the point of a pitchfork.

While I agree that peasants would not always want the same thing the simplified system CA are using seems like it has the potential to work really well and not be confusing, which is good.

**Polemists** · 01-27-2009, 12:40

the people sure but not the nobility.

If you were a noble under King Louis, and now the people have a Parlimental Monarchy, you have no power. Your lands are going to be taken shortly. Your finances are bleak. All you have is a title with little financial holdings.

Now, you hear that the "people" were dumb enough to attack england and prussia at the same time and France just lost half of it's holdings overseas.

I'm pretty sure you are going to want to go back to the monarchy. So you'd gather a armed revolt, grab random unknown child of line whatever, and charge the gates.

I can't see nobles going, "I want you to vote."

Of course they may want you to vote

If that vote

was for

A DEMO

**Sir Beane** · 01-27-2009, 12:46

Originally Posted by Polemists

the people sure but not the nobility.

If you were a noble under King Louis, and now the people have a Parlimental Monarchy, you have no power. Your lands are going to be taken shortly. Your finances are bleak. All you have is a title with little financial holdings.

Now, you hear that the "people" were dumb enough to attack england and prussia at the same time and France just lost half of it's holdings overseas.

I'm pretty sure you are going to want to go back to the monarchy. So you'd gather a armed revolt, grab random unknown child of line whatever, and charge the gates.

I can't see nobles going, "I want you to vote."

Of course they may want you to vote

If that vote

was for

A DEMO

Agreed. Nobles obviously would want to go back to the good old feudal system. Which is why CA's way of doing it makes so much sense.

Peasants want power, therefore Republic.

Nobles want power, therefore monarchy.

It will be good if they differentiate between the two by having a peasant rebellion consist of lots of low quality pike troops, with low quality militia muskets, and maybe the odd unit armed with pitchforks for flavor.

A noble rebellion should consist of well paid mercenaries, solid line infantry and cavalry, but not many of them so as to balance it out.

**Polemists** · 01-27-2009, 12:59

Exactly, though back to emerging factions i'm not quite sure.

Because on one hand it has to be well armed enough to hold off say a small rebel army, on the other hand, it needs to no be ridicously powerful enough to just wipe everyone off the map.

So like if ireland forms, i'd expect maybe 500 troops, with mostly irish themed units of riflemen, and some light calvary.

I don't think they should have artillery though, or maybe that should be a event. Like after you get letters of discord or strikes if you don't do something they try to storm the armorory or something.

Of course we'll know how affectively these units fight...once we have

a

Demo

**Sir Beane** · 01-27-2009, 13:02

I think emerging nations should be made a rare event, and they should be given quite a few troops to make sure they accomplish something.

500 men wouldn't be a great threat to the player, and probably not to an established A.I faction. I think that maybe two stacks or two and a half stacks would be suitable. That number of troops would force and immediate response from whichever nation held the rebel factions lands.

**Polemists** · 01-27-2009, 13:11

Once again this depends on the AI and what a stack means.

For instance in MTW1 it was not uncommon to have 5-6 full stacks attack a small nation. In MTW2 your average is one half stack against another half stack. (excluding mongols and crusades).

I mean for example, if everyone is out colonizing, and ireland pops up with 2-3 full stacks, they should not be able to march all the way down and take england.

The build up should be enough to conquer a province/city or two, and scare the home country a bit.

Of course true conquest, shall occur

IN THE DEMO

**Sir Beane** · 01-27-2009, 13:44

Originally Posted by Polemists

Once again this depends on the AI and what a stack means.

For instance in MTW1 it was not uncommon to have 5-6 full stacks attack a small nation. In MTW2 your average is one half stack against another half stack. (excluding mongols and crusades).

I mean for example, if everyone is out colonizing, and ireland pops up with 2-3 full stacks, they should not be able to march all the way down and take england.

The build up should be enough to conquer a province/city or two, and scare the home country a bit.

Of course true conquest, shall occur

IN THE DEMO

I think the average force in Empire will be around 1 stack, maybe 1.5.

I just don't want an emergent faction to pop up and then be destroyed the next turn by one of the big factions. Maybe there could be a series of rebellions, with the emergent faction growing stronger turn after turn as rebels join the cause? That would give the player the incentive to qush them before the whole thing gets out of hand.

**Polemists** · 01-27-2009, 13:49

I just don't want an emergent faction to pop up and then be destroyed the next turn by one of the big factions. Maybe there could be a series of rebellions, with the emergent faction growing stronger turn after turn as rebels join the cause? That would give the player the incentive to qush them before the whole thing gets out of hand.

This almost reminds me of the Eastern and Western Roman Rebels of Roman Total War BI. Which I throughly enjoyed despite how hard they were.

Partially because at first it would just be the guys that Really didn't like you, loyalty of 2 or something, but then the 4's would join them, and soon the 5's were thinking about it.

I think the emerging factions would be good to to be like that.

Were some of your generals with ties (family in ireland joins ireland etc) would lean towards or have sympathies towards the emergent faction.

I don't want to see them whiped out, and I do want to see them able to grow. I just want to see Ireland conquer all of England in 2 turns

Of course if we had Ireland vs England in a

DEMO

we'd know who is stronger :)