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Thread: Protogermanic

  1. #1

    Default Protogermanic

    I am interested in learning how you reconstructed protogermanic words. What sources and literature did you use? Can you give some hints or tips how to do it, since I am interested in learning it?
    Last edited by belanus; 01-25-2009 at 10:38.

  2. #2
    Member Member Hax's Avatar
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    Default Re: Protogermanic

    I know that blitzkrieg and fahrenheit did a lot of research on the proto-Germanic words, you could best PM them or wait to see if they'll post here.
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  3. #3

    Default Re: Protogermanic

    Reconstruction of long dead languages has been going on for a while in the linguistic field. I never complete much study in that (I was an anthropology major for a while in college) i'm not sure how they do it, but even an almost mythical language like indo-european (theoretical origininator of that family of languages) are being "reconstructed"

    Edit: celtic must be even harder as very few celtic languages exist today and some groups of that language family are completely extinct (gaulish for example)
    Last edited by HorusLupercal; 01-26-2009 at 02:51.

  4. #4
    Like the Parthian Boot Member Elmetiacos's Avatar
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    Default Re: Protogermanic

    No, proto-Germanic is much tougher work: contrary to popular belief that "the ancient Celts wrote nothing down" there is a corpus of written Gaulish and Celtiberian... nowhere near what there is for Latin, Greek or Akkadian but still enough to be helpful.
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  5. #5
    EB:NOM Triumvir Member gamegeek2's Avatar
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    Default Re: Protogermanic

    Ask blitzkrieg80 for more, he's an expert. I know some stuff about linguistics...blitz did EB "Germanic Indo-European" (as he calls it) based on Proto-Indo-European words fed through the first two phases of the germanic sound shift (according to Grimm's law). "PG" is what I will use to represent Proto-Germanic; *EB will represent EB Germanic Indo-European.

    The first phase of the sound shift is voiceless stops becoming voiceless fricatives. After an "s," this doesn't apply. However, "sk" becomes "sh" later in some Germanic languages (example Old English scitte, "dung" becomes English shit)

    p > f; English fish, PG *fiskaz, EB *fiskoz; PIE *pisk
    t > ■; English three, PG *■riz, EB *■reiz; PIE *treies
    k > **x; English heart, PG *xartan, EB *xardom; PIE *kardom
    kw > hw; English what, PG *xwat, EB *xwod; PIE *kwod

    The second phase is voiced aspirated stops becoming voiced [unaspirated] stops.

    gh > g; English goat, PG *gaitaz, EB *gaidoz; PIE *ghaidos
    bg > b; English brother, PG *brō■ar, EB *brō■er; PIE *bhrehtēr
    dh > d; English daughter, PG *duxtēr, EB *duhtēr; PIE *dhuktēr

    The third phase is voiced stops (that were unaspirated in proto-indo-european, or PIE) become voiceless stops. This phase has not occured yet in EB.

    d > t; English ten, PG *texn, EB *dexm; PIE *dekm
    g > k; English cold, PG *kald-, EB *gold-; PIE *geld-
    b > p (few examples beginning with "p")

    *indicates reconstructed word

    ** "x" represents the sound represented by the greek letter Chi, the "h" in "heart" or the "ch" in German words. It is based off of the IPA symbol x, which represents the same sound.
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    Member Member Hax's Avatar
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    Default Re: Protogermanic

    gh > g; English goat, PG *gaitaz, EB *gaidoz; PIE *ghaidos
    bg > b; English brother, PG *brō■ar, EB *brō■er; PIE *bhrehtēr
    dh > d; English daughter, PG *duxtēr, EB *duhtēr; PIE *dhuktēr
    Also present in the Dutch geit, broeder and dochter.
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  7. #7

    Default AW: Protogermanic

    Or in German itself:
    brother: Bruder
    daughter: Tochter

    If you spoke German, Dutch or any scandinavian language I think you would know what some of the native names mean without looking at the translations. There're still a lot of similarities...

  8. #8
    Legatvs Member SwissBarbar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Protogermanic

    Quote Originally Posted by gamegeek2 View Post

    p > f; English fish, PG *fiskaz, EB *fiskoz; PIE *pisk
    t > ■; English three, PG *■riz, EB *■reiz; PIE *treies
    k > **x; English heart, PG *xartan, EB *xardom; PIE *kardom
    kw > hw; English what, PG *xwat, EB *xwod; PIE *kwod

    The second phase is voiced aspirated stops becoming voiced [unaspirated] stops.

    gh > g; English goat, PG *gaitaz, EB *gaidoz; PIE *ghaidos
    bg > b; English brother, PG *brō■ar, EB *brō■er; PIE *bhrehtēr
    dh > d; English daughter, PG *duxtēr, EB *duhtēr; PIE *dhuktēr

    The third phase is voiced stops (that were unaspirated in proto-indo-european, or PIE) become voiceless stops. This phase has not occured yet in EB.

    d > t; English ten, PG *texn, EB *dexm; PIE *dekm
    g > k; English cold, PG *kald-, EB *gold-; PIE *geld-
    b > p (few examples beginning with "p")

    *indicates reconstructed word

    ** "x" represents the sound represented by the greek letter Chi, the "h" in "heart" or the "ch" in German words. It is based off of the IPA symbol x, which represents the same sound.
    Yes, German itself is a good source.


    english -> german

    goat - Geiss (Ziege)
    brother - Bruder
    daughter - Tochter

    ten - zehn
    cold - kalt

    heart - herz

    or others:

    nouns:

    table - Tafel (Tisch)
    horse - Ross (Pferd)
    hound (dog) - Hund
    house - Haus
    spear - Speer
    shield - Schild
    sword - Schwert
    helmet - Helm
    rose - Rose
    plant - Pflanze
    harbor - Hafen
    year - Jahr
    day - Tag
    second - Sekunde
    script - Schrift
    man - Mann
    wife - Weib (Frau)

    verbs:

    (to) do - tun
    (to) make - machen
    (to) shoot - schiessen
    (to) go - gehen
    (to) run - rennen
    (to) hold - halten
    (to) bow - beugen

    adjectives:

    good - gut
    absurd - absurd
    senseless - sinnlos
    unholy - unheilig
    awesome - EB

    etc.
    Last edited by SwissBarbar; 01-29-2009 at 16:01.
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