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Thread: the spartan agoge

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    The Naked Rambler Member Roka's Avatar
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    Default the spartan agoge

    i'm playing as makedonia (1.2) and i have conquered sparte, if i destroy the KH's type 1 govt. can i still send young family members to take part in the agoge?

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    Member Member Antinous's Avatar
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    Default Re: the spartan agoge

    I know that doesn't make any sense, but I think the thought though is that the makedonians are still technically greeks so you can send your kids to be trained in the agoge.


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    Default Re: the spartan agoge

    I'm pretty sure ownership of Sparta is the only requirement, aside from being a Hellenic faction.

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    The Naked Rambler Member Roka's Avatar
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    Default Re: the spartan agoge

    Quote Originally Posted by Antinous View Post
    I know that doesn't make any sense, but I think the thought though is that the makedonians are still technically greeks so you can send your kids to be trained in the agoge.
    yeah, i realise you can send them to the agoge, but i took it over maybe 20 years ago in the game and have sent many a young makedonian general there, what i want to know is if i destroy the koinon hellenon type governemtn that was there when i invaded and put in a makedonian government will i still be able to send family members to the agoge

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    Member Member Antinous's Avatar
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    Default Re: the spartan agoge

    Oh ya. I did that when I took Sparte and installed a type one gov. The type of gov doesn't affect the agoge system at all.


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    Symbasileus ton Rhomaioktonon Member Maion Maroneios's Avatar
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    Default Re: the spartan agoge

    In my campaigns as Makedonia, I simply conquer Sparte and install a lvl 4 government type. When you have a young general (16yo) that can take part in the Agoge, you will be informed of it.

    So yes, you can (actually have) to destroy the existing government system in Sparte.

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    EB TRIBVNVS PLEBIS Member MarcusAureliusAntoninus's Avatar
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    Default Re: the spartan agoge

    The KH "Type1 : Agoge" government has no connection to the script/traits concerning generals being educated at the agoge in sparta. As always, destroy all enemy governments when you take a town. The two things named "Agoge" in EB, have not gameplay connection.


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    The Naked Rambler Member Roka's Avatar
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    Default Re: the spartan agoge

    you don't actually have to destroy the type 1 gvt. already installed in sparte when you take over, and i have a few family members including the current basileus who have completed the agoge

    but i'll install a makedonian gvt. once i have the chance to play again

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    Symbasileus ton Rhomaioktonon Member Maion Maroneios's Avatar
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    Default Re: the spartan agoge

    Quote Originally Posted by Roka View Post
    you don't actually have to destroy the type 1 gvt. already installed in sparte when you take over, and i have a few family members including the current basileus who have completed the agoge

    but i'll install a makedonian gvt. once i have the chance to play again
    Actually, you have to. For practical reasons. Enemy government buildings do not work for you, even if you repair them. So it will be like having no government building at all, which you don't want.

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    Member Member Nachtmeister's Avatar
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    Default Re: the spartan agoge

    Quote Originally Posted by Maion Maroneios View Post
    Actually, you have to. For practical reasons. Enemy government buildings do not work for you, even if you repair them. So it will be like having no government building at all, which you don't want.

    Maion


    In terms of nice roleplaying and intended use, I agree. But technically I must disagree:
    In my KH campaign, I instead repaired the makedonian type I governments in Demetrias and Pella upon conquest, saving 2+3/4 years (11seasons) construction time and enabling me to run Pella as a Type I city; could build all native MIC levels and recruit all native KH troops for those provinces; no culture penalties or public order trouble encountered, both cities garrisoned with 2xAkontistai and a FM for 20 years, both got massive admin bonuses over time.
    So, in *technical* terms leaving or destroying governments depends on which faction set them up and with culturally similar factions you actually never should destroy a gov't building.

    off-topic:
    btw, why does KH not get a homeland resource in *the* greek city of Korinthos? And Syrakousai!! I mean, sure, historically the KH pretty much lost to Makedonia and then Rome took over iirc, but this game is all about alternate history, right? And how does setting up 100%damaged KH-government buildings in victory-condition-cities sound? Would make it possible to take them and set up a sufficient garrison without having to
    - either spam tree full stacks for one city (try taking Sinope and holding it with any less but without horse archers or other non-greek tactics on VH campaign mode)
    - or conquer roughly the historical western expansion area of the roman empire plus all of anatolia, raze Babylon and Seleukeia, kill all Ptolemaioi FM and fight constant wars with the Sauromatae in the north to hold all those scattered colonies.



    Anyway, enemy government buildings actually *do* work for you - but they can also give you a culture penalty.
    Last edited by Nachtmeister; 01-27-2009 at 22:16.

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  11. #11
    Tuba Son Member Subotan's Avatar
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    Default Re: the spartan agoge

    Quote Originally Posted by Nachtmeister View Post
    In my KH campaign, I instead repaired the makedonian type I governments in Demetrias and Pella upon conquest, saving 2+3/4 years (11seasons) construction time and enabling me to run Pella as a Type I city; could build all native MIC levels and recruit all native KH troops for those provinces; no culture penalties or public order trouble encountered, both cities garrisoned with 2xAkontistai and a FM for 20 years, both got massive admin bonuses over time.
    Technically, that's an exploit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nachtmeister View Post
    off-topic:
    btw, why does KH not get a homeland resource in *the* greek city of Korinthos? And Syrakousai!! I mean, sure, historically the KH pretty much lost to Makedonia and then Rome took over iirc, but this game is all about alternate history, right? And how does setting up 100%damaged KH-government buildings in victory-condition-cities sound? Would make it possible to take them and set up a sufficient garrison without having to
    - either spam tree full stacks for one city (try taking Sinope and holding it with any less but without .
    For KH, the type one represents the Spartan Agoge. And it's only 10 turns, it's not like you're building Level 2 mines.

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    Member Member Nachtmeister's Avatar
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    Default Re: the spartan agoge

    Quote Originally Posted by Subotan View Post
    Technically, that's an exploit.
    I said something about nice roleplaying and intended use in my previous post to adress this.


    Quote Originally Posted by Subotan View Post
    For KH, the type one represents the Spartan Agoge. And it's only 10 turns, it's not like you're building Level 2 mines.
    No, it's only like building *half* a metalleutikon kentron.
    Seriously, the time spent on building government AND MIC3 is too much if you want to make it to strategically vital places like Antiocheia before they turn into huge cities and you get stuck with a rediculously high culture penalty until 14AD.
    Unless you want to trade an exploit for a move_character cheat to stop the AI from building the next level of governor's residence by razing everything to the ground and removing some more population by means of console commands.
    Or is there some way to directly spawn, edit or remove buildings (governor's residence, specifically) other than via the ingame-interface?

    I am honoured to have been presented with my first baloons - - by Ibrahim for tactical observations
    and with my second balloon by Christopher Burgoyne for physical elaboration on the advantages conferred by the Kontos over the Xyston.

  13. #13

    Default Re: the spartan agoge

    Makedonia can send their young to the agoge, but they can't continue their education unless they're Spartans(16-18,but not 18-20).

    I think if you bribe a spartan family their "Spartan" trait passes down.
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  14. #14
    Member Member Nachtmeister's Avatar
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    Default Re: the spartan agoge

    Does bribing work like adoption, then?
    Akrotatos Eurypontidos Lakedaimonios is "venal" right from the start of the campaign whereas everyone else is very loyal, so anyone from the Eurypontidos branch of the KH family is worth a try for bribing. However, he also has the otherwise worst traits of all KH generals (dull/uncharismatic AND languorous as of EB1.2).

    I am honoured to have been presented with my first baloons - - by Ibrahim for tactical observations
    and with my second balloon by Christopher Burgoyne for physical elaboration on the advantages conferred by the Kontos over the Xyston.

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    Guest desert's Avatar
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    Default Re: the spartan agoge

    But he's a future king of Sparta, so there's no way you would be able to buy him.

  16. #16
    Friend of Lady Luck Member Mooks's Avatar
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    Default Re: the spartan agoge

    Never played a hellenistic faction before (Despise Hoplites). What does the agoge do?
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    Arrogant Ashigaru Moderator Ludens's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Re: the spartan agoge

    Quote Originally Posted by Mooks View Post
    Never played a hellenistic faction before (Despise Hoplites). What does the agoge do?
    There is a description thread. Essentially, if you let a young family member (that is: one with the "young" trait: adopted FM, son-in-laws and men-of-the-hours never have this and therefore cannot participate) stay in Sparta, he will go acquire a series of traits to simulate his progress through the agoge. This depends on his primary characteristics (intelligence, energy) and whether or not you obey the rules laid out in these traits. If he completes the agoge, he may gain an influence and morale bonus. He also may have participated in the krypteia. Both the agoge and krypteia traits affect the acquisition of other traits.
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