ETW PBM Think Tank

[Ramses II CP]

I haven't played Empire, but on the combat front I would suggest that perhaps we should remove players from 'being' avatars and instead have them become a layer above the in game avatars. To gain control of an avatar or army for a particular battle you could maybe use a system similar to the Clan bidding in the Battletech universe, i.e. 'I can take Kiev with just five companies,' 'I can take it with four, etc.' This way there's no need for the generals to be especially recruited, and no worries over the boring role of being a governor.

A modified bidding system could be use as well, with either votes or the 'Megas' role ultimately making the decision. The benefit of the bid system is that it encourages risk taking and defeats for the player, making the AI considerably more challenging than it would otherwise be, which is important if PvP is being removed. With avatars not one to one with players the consequences of defeat are less as well, such that we may have to reintroduce risk of some kind other than just political fallout for a loss.

To try to put that in better perspective:

1. Players aren't avatars at all, they're completely invented characters 'above' the in game avatars who bid or politic for control of a particular avatar for a limited time. Bidding could be based on time, upkeep, total number of soldiers needed, or anything really.

2. This increases the challenge rating of the AI, which will surely be necessary given the lack of PvP. It also helps control spending and avoid the need for cheats.

3. Risk to the actual player may be reduced too much, such that we need to introduce some possibility of actual death back into the system (Perhaps a making the bid 'I'll lead the men personally!' have considerable weight in the process and run the risk of death).

4. Weighting the system so that votes and/or the Megas role is the ultimate decision maker, or maybe just selects who is allowed to bid in the first place, will maintain a strong role for politics in combat.

[mini]

And what about less gifted generals among us? :)

[Ramses II CP]

That's why I'd modify the system to includes politics, finances, and etc. in the bidding as well. The 'less gifted' can scheme to have themselves selected by the Megas/vote system which should carry some weight in the bidding as well. After all if it's strict bidding then someone can simply bid the bare minimum and lose without much concern.

Also a possibility is limiting bidding to those whose cities or controlled zones contributed to the army, and further we wouldn't allow people to win bids across multiple simultaneous campaigns. There should be plenty of room for everyone to get in a fight.

[GeneralHankerchief]

In the meantime, we can always go back to the old-style PBM. I admit that the WotS-type of PBM has kind of shut out the sucession games, and deservedly so since they're more immersive, but I believe that ETW is naturally suited to people reigning for a certain period of time (10 or 20 turns - this would adequately be suited to a Constitutional Monarchy type of country), controlling every aspect of the game, and then passing it onto the next player, writing up a detailed report for everybody.

The last such PBM before Will of the Senate came out, Re-unification, is an excellent read of a bunch of players doing the Western Roman Empire campaign for BI and is what drew me to the Throne Room in the first place. I'm sure that we can produce a couple of PBMs of similar quality while we work out the kinks and either CA or a mod gives us better material to work with.

[woad&fangs]

I came up with a very rough rule proposal for an ETW PBM. I read about the political situation of Poland-Lithuania at this time and came up with this

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

ETW PBM Idea: Poland-Lithuanian Commonwealth
In game avatars are purely optional.

GM plays the role of King. Because the king is “elected” by the slachta and magnates, he will be played weakly and will mainly be content to lurk in the shadows and let the magnates run the country. He does however, have the ability to appoint the secretaries (the senate can override his decisions at any session)

Speaking of the magnates….Each province is controlled by a magnate. Magnates were exceptionally wealthy and powerful men in the commonwealth. They generally controlled vast tracks of land and had a political and economic stranglehold over their area. Magnates are responsible for running their province. They can build or destroy any building they wish in their province. They make requests for soldiers for their personal general(s). They move their personal general(s). They control all rakes, gentleman, and priests who spawned in their province.

Szlachta: They are all nobles but less powerful than the magnates. Players who are szlachta will be able to vote and run for chancellor. Aside from that, their power is limited to how benevolent the magnate of their province is.

Chancellor is the one elected role. He is in charge of recruiting armies and generals and he is in charge of diplomacy. He may declare war at any time. The only other way to declare war is through an edict. He must ensure that each magnate has at least one general. Magnates may have more than one general but those are prioritized with the rest of the army. The chancellor must abide by all army requests to the best of his ability.

Conquering a new territory: If a territory is conquered, an impromptu senate session will occur. Ownership of a province is “decided” by the king. However, the king is easily bribed. Each magnate will secretly bid for the right to name the new owner of the province. They may bid up to the amount that is in their personal treasury. The winning bidder will decide who will become the new magnate. He can either name one of his own szlachta or another magnate’s szlachta as the magnate of the new province. Magnates are allowed to pool their treasuries to bid.

Wealth: Every turn, each magnate will be allowed to use a certain % of the faction’s treasury (above the “rainy day fund” and “chancellor’s fund” level) to buy new soldiers and build new buildings. The rainy day fund is the amount that can not be spent by anyone. This amount is set by an edict. The chancellor’s fund is the amount of money set aside for diplomatic transactions. This amount is set by an edict. The % that each magnate receives is equal to their wealth level. Their wealth level is equal to the economic capabilities of their province + money gained through agreements with other magnates. Money that a magnate could spend but chooses not to causes their personal treasury to increase by that amount. Money in a magnate’s personal treasury may only be used for bidding purposes. Personal treasuries are virtually represented. The actual in game money that is left over can be spent however the chancellor wishes.

Wealth agreements: Magnates may make formal binding agreements that distribute a certain # of their wealth points to another magnate. Theses agreements are binding for a length of time set in the contract (minimum of 5 turns).

How Wealth is determined:

Cities/Villages/ports- 1 wp for each +1 wp for each economic upgrade

Wealth points to % income ratio

3 =10%
4-5=15%
6-7=20%
8-9=25%
10+=30%

I won't be able to play ETW until I get my new computer in May so I know there are probably lots of issues with my idea. Its rather hard to come up with rules when one doesn't know the gameplay mechanics available.

Hopefully this will at least provide food for thought.

[mini]

sounds good, and the mechanic is translatable to other factions.

[pevergreen]

The only problem is that Tax rates are set by theatre (europe, america, india) and the only changes are tax-exemption for a province.

[Cecil XIX]

It was mentioned here.

Speaking of the magnates….Each province is controlled by a magnate. Magnates were exceptionally wealthy and powerful men in the commonwealth. They generally controlled vast tracks of land and had a political and economic stranglehold over their area. Magnates are responsible for running their province. They may set taxes however they please in their province. They can build or destroy any building they wish in their province. They make requests for soldiers for their personal general(s). They move their personal general(s). They control all rakes, gentleman, and priests who spawned in their province.

[woad&fangs]

Oops! I thought I had remembered to take that part out