Thureophoroi or Peltastai?

[Conan]

Hi guys,

Just wondering which of the two above do people tend to recruit more of and why?

I like the number of javelins and the skirmish element of Peltastai (one click and they remain at a distance and throw all there javelins). Also there sword mean more attack vs infantry than Thureophoroi, I think at least.

However Thureophoroi have more defensive capability + much better against cavalry.

Cavalry seem to chew through Peltastai with ease.

[Mjolnir]

I prefer Thureophoroi since they do much better against cavalry trying to flank my lines plus I can use them to plug any holes in the hoplite line as they also do much better against infantry in combat. I make up for the lesser missile fire power with a couple units of slingers.

[antisocialmunky]

Thracians.

[Dayve]

Thracians.

Why? If you send them in to flank an already engaged enemy, they don't kill them any quicker than peltastai or thureophoroi, and they drop like flies to missile fire. When arrows/javelins/slings hit units of peltastai and thureophoroi, they barely take damage, unless the missiles are coming from behind. Hit those Thracians with any form of missiles from the front, flank or rear and they lose 10-30 men a volley.

I'll go with Peltastai. Cheaper, more easily accesible and tons of missiles, and very fast and mobile.

Although Thracians look so cool, i will give them that.

[machinor]

I use them both... all three respectively if you count in Thorakitai as well. Each unit has its specialisation: Peltastai in my armies usually harass the main infantry line with their javelins, then when the main infantry lines engaged each other, they dispose of enemy skirmishers and missile troops, then come back for the final showdown, charging the flanks and if possible back of the enemy infantry line. Peltastai are supreme allround units.
Thureophoroi are less of an allrounder or anti-skirmisher-unit than more of a superspecialised flanker. They are the perfect flanking unit: Javelins soften up enemy lines and weaken enemy morale; they are fast enough to be able to quickly engage or disengage and to outflank the main enemy infantry line; their armour is light enough so they are able to react quickly and to strike swift but still good enough to survive longer melee fights.
Thorakitai are heavy infantry ideal for heavy flanking (meaning: winning the fight agianst enemy (lighter) flanking units plus protecting your main line's flanks plus chopping up the enemy's main infantry line from the flanks) and due to their heavy armour even suited as main line infantry, able to hold the line against most heavy infantry. Their main line duties are less important or valuable against pike phalanx armies since they are able to hold the line against phalanxes but not capable of effectively defeating them head on. They are however a valuable heavy line infantry against more flexible armies like the ones in Italy or Gaul.

So each of the three units has its use. However, the Peltastai are inargueably the best allrounder of the three, especially in early game confrontations. As more elite and heavy armies become the standard, Peltastai get a bit less useful as they are no match against heavier infantry. It depends on the enemy, though. Eastern armies tend to have more light infantry so Peltastai do the job quite well against them (in my Baktrian campaigns I rarely use Thureophoroi, I use Peltastai for the most time and later on switch directly to Thorakitai as main line infantry).

[BurningEGO]

It depends on the peltastai too. Peltastai Makedonikoi, for example, is absurdly powerful. Even if a bit too expensive.

[antisocialmunky]

Why? If you send them in to flank an already engaged enemy, they don't kill them any quicker than peltastai or thureophoroi, and they drop like flies to missile fire. When arrows/javelins/slings hit units of peltastai and thureophoroi, they barely take damage, unless the missiles are coming from behind. Hit those Thracians with any form of missiles from the front, flank or rear and they lose 10-30 men a volley.

I'll go with Peltastai. Cheaper, more easily accesible and tons of missiles, and very fast and mobile.

Although Thracians look so cool, i will give them that.

I use these guys, Akonastai, and Thorakitai. Peltastai are alright and make good flankers but they aren't optimal IMHO. Akonastai have 80 more men and are expendable. I usually sit them behind my main line and watch all 1000+ missiles hit the enemy. I don't really like thureophoroi because there are better things to flank or hold a line. They don't do anything all that great so I don't use them... ever.

Now the Thracians are only $200 more than a Peltastai, have the same armor as Thureophoroi with 1 less shield. They have more javelins than the Thureophoroi. While their attack rating is low compared to others, I believe their sword has stupid amounts of lethality and maybe AP.

They are the originals in the Hellenic world and very few skirmishers beat them. I mean... they can beat Triari in 1vs1.

[SwissBarbar]

mhyeah, but it would not be funny to spam the best of the best all the time. Find a good combination of Peltastai and Thureophoroi in your army. 1 fullstack like this makes a good KH main army.

1 x General
2 x Hoplitai
2 x Hoplitai Haploi
(later armies take 4 x Phalangitai instead of the Hoplitai and H. Haploi)
2 x Thureophoroi
2 x Peltastai
1 x Thrakioi Peltastai

1 x General
3 x Akontistai
1 x Sphedonetai
1 x Toxotai Kretikoi
2 x Hippakontistai
2 x Hippeis

[mikil100]

I use these guys, Akonastai, and Thorakitai. Peltastai are alright and make good flankers but they aren't optimal IMHO. Akonastai have 80 more men and are expendable. I usually sit them behind my main line and watch all 1000+ missiles hit the enemy. I don't really like thureophoroi because there are better things to flank or hold a line. They don't do anything all that great so I don't use them... ever.

Now the Thracians are only $200 more than a Peltastai, have the same armor as Thureophoroi with 1 less shield. They have more javelins than the Thureophoroi. While their attack rating is low compared to others, I believe their sword has stupid amounts of lethality and maybe AP.

They are the originals in the Hellenic world and very few skirmishers beat them. I mean... they can beat Triari in 1vs1.

I use these guys in melee as much at ranged, they are an excellent melee unit and can go toe to toe with alot of melee only units, I know they have AP, Idk about lethality bonus, but they are extremely good skirmishers.

[BurningEGO]

Thureophoroi are far better in my opinion. They are perfect to outflank the enemy while your phalanx are holding the lines, if you lack the cavalry, or for defending your own flanks. I usually hide them a bit behind my phalanx, and enable fire at will. After all missiles have been launched I usually outflank the enemy with Thureophoroi together with cavalry. Few enemies survived that strategy early on on VH/VH. At least, the ones with a rather static kind of warfare.

Of course, such strategy will work far better once you get the stronger Thureophoroi - the Thorakitai.

[Tolg]

I don't think you can compare them, their tasks in your army are too different. It would be suicidal to try to hold a line against cavalry with Peltastai and it would be a waste to send Thureophoroi around your enemies' flanks to have them throw their javelins in the enemies' backs.

Thureophoroi are better in defense or when attacking settlements while attacking on open fields.

If I had to choose one I would take the Peltastai though, they're better against Phalanges, the main enemy of my cavalry based armies (I'm always relying heavily on my cavalry, even when playing with the Romans or the KH).



BTW, why does my spell check know the word "Thureophoroi"? lol