The Godfather, Part 3 [Concluded]

[Askthepizzaguy]

Anyone who has played with me before knows that this particular 'playing style' is one that I always use. I like to speculate.

As do I.

The fact that my analyses lead 'nowhere' is down to the fact that it is speculation at this early stage.

Yes. And I know I'm the wrong person to be making this observation, but your analysis seems automatic, prepared, and forced to me. It's just a feeling I am getting from your writing. There is an aura of "fertilizer" wafting from those posts.

Maybe you are just trying to help, but I feel you're acting out of sorts and I must question it.

Would you prefer I said nothing?

I'd prefer you said more. You had 7 posts at the time I was first accusing you, long winded posts that lead nowhere, excuses for not being here, no real attempts at discussion, but several of provoking discussion perhaps.

All these excuses don't sit well with me. I haven't even been HERE at the proper times to play this game, and I've contributed more than you have. I'm a bad example because I never shut up, but I don't buy that you have the best interests of the town at heart when you show up, post a big one, and skip out citing real life as a reason why you cannot be here to be questioned properly.

I'm sharing my speculations because I might trigger someone elses feelings/ thoughts in a similar vein, or I may not?

Yes, that much I understand. It's just something about the helpless, futile tone of your conclusions, and the utter RANDOMness of your voting, plus all your excuses which tells me something is awry.

I'm merely trying to help.

We would know that already, you are sounding too apologetic and defensive. You have no need to suggest you're trying to help, that's implied.

And yes someone ripped off my kill description. I'm not happy about that. And define in the lead against Sasaki? I don't follow.

You're not happy about it? Why?

That's too esoteric and vague a clue as to be a false implication that you're guilty from the mafia. In fact, if you had remained silent on the matter, I would have found it interesting if someone had come forward accusing you of being mafia on such odd evidence.

That evidence is seriously weird. It's far too vague to be an attempt at framing you, because anyone who comes forward with such evidence will be looked at as if they had three heads.

I think someone could be ripping off your kills, perhaps not trying to frame you, but it's VERY odd that they did that. And that you're talking about it. And your other behavior.

As for the Sasaki thing, you were one of the 3 people voting for him. Now this sudden change of vote... why? Are you trying to cover your tracks to hide the fact that you're one of the people responsible for his lynch, and if so, why?

Since you had nothing real to go on for White_Eyes, and you have no idea if Sasaki is innocent or not, why unvote and change your vote?

It's your prerogative to do so, but it seems random and irresponsible to me, and bad for town. Mafia tend to unvote more often than townies, because they have more reason to manipulate the tally than naive townies do.

Now I'm really sorry but I have to go...

And this piques my curiosity even further.

Why are you pressing all my scumtell buttons, Gaius Scribonius Curio? I wonder whose side you're really on here.


That said, there is no way town will lynch you this round, and I won't be here tomorrow to prosecute you, so I suppose you escape this day from my inquisition. Better for town if I were wrong about you. But consider what I have said about the oddities in your behavior, and whether or not these are objectively valid reasons to wonder what the heck you're up to.

If you're a townie, it's in everyone's best interest that you don't make smoke signals that suggest you're a mafioso. Do as you will, but know that I think you're a scumbag at this moment.

[Askthepizzaguy]

And, because I think neither Sasaki or Lord Winter is more scummy than you, I have no preference as to which one of them dies.

I'm voting you in protest of your odd behavior.

Unvote: Abstain
Vote: Gaius Scribonius Curio

[Askthepizzaguy]

It's shlin28, not Shlin28

Everybody makes mistakes... force of habit I capitalize people's nicknames at times.

However, shlin28 has been capitalizing the ends of his words, repeatedly. I was just wondering why.

[Andres]

Everybody makes mistakes... force of habit I capitalize people's nicknames at times.

However, shlin28 has been capitalizing the ends of his words, repeatedly. I was just wondering why.

I was merely amused with the irony of you doing what you "accused" shlin28 of, hence the smiley.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I understand. It is an irony.

But I do feel that what I was doing is clearly a more honest mistake, and shlin28's actions do seem deliberate, don't they?

And yes, I'm asking you, and anyone else who is listening, what you think. And I'd like shlin28 to explain it so we don't waste more time talking about it.

[White_eyes:D]

Askthepizzaguy 42 36
777Ares777 31 28
GeneralHankerchief 31
Andres 23 22
TinCow 22 21
Sasaki Kojiro 21 19
187Beefyz 19 18
YLC 19 17
shlin28 16 15
Quintus.JC 14 13
Seamus Fermanagh 13 11
seireikhaan 13 11
CountArach 13
Reenk Roink 11 7
TevashSzat 10 9
LittleGrizzly 10 9
Chaotix27 8 7
White_eyes:D 8 7
Sigurd 8 4
boudica 7 6
glyphz 7 6
Rythmic 6 5
Gaius Scribonius Curio 6 5
Lord Winter 6 5
Jolt 6 5
Tratorix 5 4
Ichigo 3 2
taka 2 1
Ignoramus 2 1

That was the reason why I voted Lord Winter as Sasaki makes a good point...his post count is about the same as yours Gaius....
Only taka and Ignoramus had the lowest post count....I am sorry Lord Winter.....but another "Lurker Victory" like in "Chicago Soiree" well break me.....

[Askthepizzaguy]

So, I am not the only one who thinks GSC is acting strange? Good.

I hate being alone.

[boudica]

I think the ripped off kill is weird. The only reason I can think of that GSC would do that deliberately himself, would be to set up a WIFOM situation that kind of favours him with its unlikeliness!

Anyway, it is ALOT more tenuous than the idea that Beefyz was framed, but I find the vote change odd and as it looks like ATPG has got his jaw clamped and locked on to GSC now, it's probably almost worth lynching him tomorrow so you can move on to someone else

Sorry - one read through is not enough for anylsis from beyond the grave, but I'll follow with interest and try to do some helpful haunting later.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I'm here, so I have to get my posts in when I'm available...

I would be happy to let go of GSC and not burn him at the stake if he could explain his actions in a way that makes sense to me. Although nothing he can say can fully "clear" him, he could at least help me to understand the bizarre-ness of his posting behavior, such that other people would be a higher priority target.

If he does not fully explain his odd behavior, I will fully lock on to him and pester him until he's dead or I am, and death isn't something that generally shuts me up.

[Andres]

I understand. It is an irony.

But I do feel that what I was doing is clearly a more honest mistake, and shlin28's actions do seem deliberate, don't they?

And yes, I'm asking you, and anyone else who is listening, what you think. And I'd like shlin28 to explain it so we don't waste more time talking about it.

Of course it is an honest mistake and I found it funny. It wasn't meant as an accusation or so. You're overreacting now.

[Andres]

Talking about lurker victories, Sigurd, who basically lurked himself to victory in Chicago Soirée, has only 8 posts too.

Unvote : Abstain
Vote : Sigurd

No more lurker victories

[Askthepizzaguy]

I don't think I am. I was just continuing the conversation, Andres. Do you have an opinion on it or not?

[Andres]

I don't think I am. I was just continuing the conversation, Andres. Do you have an opinion on it or not?

An opinion on what? A few careless typos from shlin28?

Meh, I don't see anything unusual about him, apart from what seems to me higher activity compared with other games (don't quote me on that though, you're the statistics guy); could have to do with his CoP position which he seems to enjoy

Not enough to put him on top of my suspects list.

[White_eyes:D]

So, I am not the only one who thinks GSC is acting strange? Good.

I hate being alone.

Well....I think Gaius is defending his Mafia/lurker buddy....both of there post counts are low....but I did make the same mistake before....I.E. accusing guys of helping each other=Mafia defending his bros...I wouldn't let it fly too far as it has not helped me in the past....

[Askthepizzaguy]

So, just keeping score:

Andres position on shlin28 is that his repeated end-letter capitalization is all just a coincidence, even though it looks deliberate from where I sit, and;

White_eyes isn't totally sure about GSC but does think he's acting scummy.

Good to keep notes on.

[Jolt]

Im going to Vote Jolt for 2 reasons, one his low postcount in the game, two based on tincow's reasoning of the english as a second langauge or badly spoken first langauge...

FoS: LittleGrizzly
Vote: LittleGrizzly

1st reason: I am in exam season plus I don't have internet where I study. How do you want me to post?
2nd reason: ....What? I'm proud of writing and speaking better English than many American counter-parts.

a second langauge or badly spoken first langauge...

(No offense intended, while I have been offended.)

My reasons for voting LittleGrizzly is that it is the second time he votes for me without any plausible reason whatsoever or anything like it. Last time that happened to me (Ephesus), one of my bandwagons was scummy.

[TinCow]

Post count has exploded since I was last on. I don't have time to read the last 1.5 pages, but I read the Beefy bits, and he doesn't seem scummy to me. The only reason I voted for him in the first place was that he was one of several people who fit my profile. My profile is far from decent evidence, it was just an attempt to grasp at something firm in the first couple rounds. In addition, I didn't do any great analysis of his posting style when I chose him as my target, I just had a few people spring to mind immediately, and chose him after first doing a check on Ares' posts. This 'evidence' is not strong enough to lynch him given the innocent vibes he's giving off now.

Unvote: 187Beefyz
Vote: Abstain

I will try and re-allocate my vote to someplace useful in a few hours when I've got time to read the rest.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

FoS: LittleGrizzly
Vote: LittleGrizzly

1st reason: I am in exam season plus I don't have internet where I study. How do you want me to post?
2nd reason: ....What? I'm proud of writing and speaking better English than many American counter-parts. (No offense intended, while I have been offended.)

My reasons for voting LittleGrizzly is that it is the second time he votes for me without any plausible reason whatsoever or anything like it. Last time that happened to me (Ephesus), one of my bandwagons was scummy.

1st explanation makes sense, and 2nd comment; I haven't noticed Jolt writing in a way that makes me think he has difficulty with the language.

Whether it's legitimate or not, low post count for whatever reason is a valid reason to vote you, Jolt. At the same time, I personally don't see why you should be lynched sooner than others.

[Jolt]

Bleh, I have already explained my internet problem.
I see a reason, which is that there is no reason whatsoever for me to get lynched.

About the legitimacy, it doesn't really matter. I could vote for anyone without any reason or legitimacy. I'm just pointing out that I haven't post because I couldn't. Not because didn't want to.

Then again, experience is already kicking in as to my game from Ephesus, since I was lynched for no reason, and one of my voters was mafia (I think it was boudica). I personally see that there is no reason why I should be lynched, but I must be being biased.

[Askthepizzaguy]

No, I agree with you so far.

I haven't seen any reason why you're more scummy than others. Nothing has cleared you, mind you, but I see nothing condemning you, and the reasons put forward so far, lacking.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I've re-examined the evidence on Lord Winter, and his writing style is... well, improper enough to fit the supposed profile of one of the murder writers, who may have had to pull from previous games in order to cover up his style.

Lord Winter is also a veteran, from the ancient era.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The ancient era, by the way, was that big long period of peace and quiet before Askthepizzaguy wandered into the gameroom.

As such, he meets the profile of someone who could fish out kill descriptions from previous mafia games (a strategy a newbie would not come up with, most likely) and someone who may have difficulty masking his writing.

I'll leave GSC alone for one round, and go for Lord Winter.

Unvote: Gaius Scribonius Curio
Vote: Lord Winter

[boudica]

Sounds good to me. I wish i could vote now :D

[Askthepizzaguy]

Lord Winter: 4 - (Sasaki, White_eyes:D, YLC, Askthepizzaguy)

Sasaki Kojiro: 3 - (Gaius Scribonius Curio, Reenk Roink, TevashSzat)

187Beefyz: 1 - (Seamus Fermanagh)

TinCow: 1 - (777Ares777)
Jolt: 1 - (LittleGrizzly)
Sigurd: 1 - (Andres)
LittleGrizzly: 1 - (Jolt)

Abstain: LW, Beefy, taka, Rythmic, TinCow, etc... (others?)

Please verify this one, helpful people.

I hate to be a capper voter, but I honestly don't see a better suspect among those who have votes, and GSC can wait.

[Jolt]

No, I agree with you so far.

I haven't seen any reason why you're more scummy than others. Nothing has cleared you, mind you, but I see nothing condemning you, and the reasons put forward so far, lacking.

Exactly.
My thingy is with the voting for me on the grounds of an explained absence, is just wierd and since that has already happened, I get suspicious.

[Askthepizzaguy]

And nevermind on the capitalization thing. On further reflection, CoP stands for Chief of Police.

Stupid, stupid pizzaguy. Nevermind shlin28... nevermind.

[Askthepizzaguy]

...and since that has already happened, I get suspicious.

I don't know.

For now, chalk it up to naive townies creating reasons for voting other naive townies. At this stage of the game, it's the townies making all the mistakes. As the townie pool gets smaller, the collective IQ of town increases, and the collective IQ of the mafia decreases.

Eventually, the mafia will be the ones making mistakes, and in the meantime we should forgive small errors and bad accusations. The mafia have little reason to incriminate themselves just yet. We leap on one another like a pack of cannibals and they sit back and laugh. Since we have no reason to trust one another, and we want to win the game, we're quick to accuse, and slow to forgive. Let it pass, my advice.

Instead, put forward your suggestion as to who is objectively the least helpful among us, or who among the supposedly helpful is actually subtly misleading us.

If I learned anything from Chicago, it's that townies with vendettas against one another make the mafia's job a lot easier. Not only will I never repeat that mistake, I urge you all to avoid it as well.

[TinCow]

I have read through the rest in detail now. Musings on a few people who have been discussed:

Curio: If I were the Godfather, Curio would be very high on my list for grunt selection. He's a very good player, always contributes something worthwhile to the town, and yet never seems to become high profile. He's the kind of person who could avoid being investigated and lynched for a long time. However, I don't buy ATPG's accusations against him. The only one I saw that had any merits was him spotting the plagiarism of his own kill write-up. While this is a curious situation and poses WIFOM issues, it just doesn't seem right to me. I could see intentionally copying one's own work to make oneself look innocent, but I would have expected this 'copycat write-up' MO to start on turn 1 if it was planned in this manner, especially with an experienced player like Curio. The N2 plagiarism still seems like improv to me in reaction to fear of leaking further 'tells' into write-ups. Curio just doesn't strike me as the kind of person who would do that. He would plan it from the beginning. That said, there is another grunt out there, and the Godfather as well.

Jolt: Interesting situation. His vote on LG is exceptionally reactionary and it doesn't have any decent reasoning behind it. It was a pure retaliatory vote. More pressure on Jolt is probably warranted. I would like to request an opinion from people who know his playing style better than I. Would Jolt be so haphazard as to do a pure retaliatory vote as mafia, or would he be more tactical?

Lord Winter: Also interesting. Sasaki has probed him and he has reacted in a particularly tender fashion. He looks like a promising candidate this round, though I could simply be blinded by Sasaki's reasoning.

However, I don't think my vote is needed on Lord Winter. I will shift it there later if necessary to keep Sasaki alive, but for now that doesn't seem to be required. Instead, I will follow up on an exceptionally good point, made by Andres. With the increasingly verbose games we've had lately, lurking is becoming a very viable mafia tactic. I hate lurkers, because they give me nothing to work with. Sigurd would also be an excellent choice for a grunt. Thus, I will follow Andres' lead and push for more conversation from Sigurd.

Unvote: Abstain
Vote: Sigurd

I would also like to thank Sasaki for this:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

One of the things we look for in mafia is posts that indicate that the suspicion is not genuine and arrived at by artificial means. Your posts indicated that you weren't genuinely suspicious of Seamus and you are admitting that now--you aren't voting for him or anyone on the reenk bandwagon today and are waiting "for something good to come up" instead of looking on your own. It's easy to see how a mafioso would come in on day one, try to find a reason to vote, make one up without thinking about it too hard, get called on it and back off, and then avoid accusing someone on day 2.

This is a very useful description of how to analyze in-thread behavior. I've felt a bit out of place when doing this and have not been very successful in the past. The above explanation of the theory behind it was something of an epiphany for me. Many thanks, Sasaki.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Lord Winter: 4 - (Sasaki, White_eyes:D, YLC, Askthepizzaguy)

Sasaki Kojiro: 3 - (Gaius Scribonius Curio, Reenk Roink, TevashSzat)
Sigurd: 2 - (Andres, TinCow)

187Beefyz: 1 - (Seamus Fermanagh)
TinCow: 1 - (777Ares777)
Jolt: 1 - (LittleGrizzly)
LittleGrizzly: 1 - (Jolt)

Abstain: LW, Beefy, taka, Rythmic, etc... (others?)

Good Sasaki quote, TinCow. More of my blah, blah, blah-ing in spoilers, because I'm sure people are sick of hearing me talk.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I think you could be right about GSC... it may not quite fit the bill. I just saw a bunch of things I considered bad or strange play and/or scummy, and found him to be an excellent candidate for grunt. Plus he seems to be totally dodging being questioned or participating for more than 10 minutes at a time. I'd like a resolution to those points from him before I drop it.

Jolt: Can't say he's guilty or innocent, but I know that purely retaliatory votes are something I'd avoid as a mafioso. When townies make scummy-looking mistakes at this early stage of the game, you have to wonder how bone-headed a mafia would have to be to make those same mistakes, as it's likely they'd get lynched for such reasons in lieu of better arguments.

Lord Winter: I'm having second thoughts, but the low activity and veteran status combined with sort of a low-key play style and the spelling stuff means that if we just totally overlook him as a top suspect, we aren't doing a very thorough job.

I'd think that the mafia, as a team, however, would catch Lord Winter's writing style before it makes it to print... possibly, perhaps, not even choosing him as a grunt to begin with due to GH's lack of editing. All this is speculation.

And I don't think Sigurd should ever be allowed to lurk again. If not Lord Winter, go ahead and string him up.

I'd be willing to take my vote off of Lord Winter as well, but I don't know... Sigurd has been mafia a LOT lately... making him a grunt is a bad choice. Especially if he lurks. They must think we are total morons to pick Sigurd and have him lurk again. I have doubts it's Sigurd for like, what is it, 4th time in a row? That being said, he's not particularly helpful, and I refuse to lose to a lurker again.

[shlin28]

The CoP returns!

My (very short) list of suspicious people:

1. Lord Winter - As stated before by others. Also, his excuses are not really that good. If he was online during Sasaki's inquisition, it would not take 20 minutes to make a reply - From what I gather he was active during those 20 minutes on the Org right?

2. YLC - He's just too suspicious for his own good.

Random stuff:

I find it interesting the mafia this time is killing off the mainly mid-range posters. Not lurkers, but not the too active people either. Maybe the mafia is still deciding on whether to go with the "Kill the people who talk too much" or "Kill the people who talk too little", or maybe they are just rather inexperienced...?

That's all for now

*A golden armoured giant robot standing nearby transforms into a platinum coated limousine, in the process also revealing a golden brick path leading from the CoP to the door of the limo. The CoP is carried by his silver armoured servants into the limo, which then flies off into the general direction of the CoP's Pleasure Palace of Pure Awsomeness.*

Edit: Lol at ATPG's mistake

[Thermal]

Mafia would logically kill off the active, so bye bye me, ATPG, tincow and andres (unless one of us in mafia of course or becomes a massive suspect)


The GSC is intriging, hardly daming, but certainly something to keep caps on, Lord winter has been lurky in his other games so i wouldnt say he was mafia here, i would say other lurkers who are usually more active should be in the spotlight, such as Sigurd.


While i still stand by my vote for tincow I see it will go nowhere so I'll
unvote, vote: Sigurd