The Godfather, Part 3 [Concluded]

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Oh, pardon me, but I have places to be and cannot respond to your questioning kthanxbye!

To respond to your observation, that wasn't the point of what I was saying. What I was saying was, rather than "I must be innocent because I post alot" (Which is false because I do that as mafia), was that I am innocent because I am intentionally, and for no seemingly rational purpose, bringing heat on myself and then responding to questioning.

But what you said was going to bring heat on you really doesn't. Who cares about a little wifom?

And it has gotten me dead, every single time I've done it.

I'm not familiar with your post. Right now you and sigurd would be my top two to vote for. Sigurd because he's lurking and thus not revealing much, and you because you're doing the opposite. The amount of long winded zaniness you post makes people miss the trees for the forest. If you had just posted your attack on shlin you would have drawn suspicion for it as it was a weak attack based on a careless reading. But it gets lost in the shuffle of all your other posts. PK was successful with this kind of play as my partner in taormina. Your case on gaius was full of holes as well. I don't intend to post a long rebuttal because I don't object to people being prodded and having to defend themselves and I think it's fairly evident to those who read it carefully (if anyone bothered).

In summary, it's an anti-town posting style like lurking is and that makes you a good candidate for an early lynch.

[Askthepizzaguy]

It's not my style, though. I could prepare an exhaustive list of links to previous mafia games I've been in and prove it, but I don't think it's necessary.

MY way of mocking the town is very simple; be as townie as possible and then laugh at you when we win. I would not draw heat on myself on purpose just to get lynched. That's not mocking, because when I succeed in my efforts, die, and there are less murders per round, you will know I am guilty, and it will be ME who looks the fool, not you.

I don't like looking the fool. I am prepared to take great risks to help you guys out, post until my fingers bleed, spend 50 hours creating mafia tools, and do exhaustive analysis on everyone in a game, because I don't want to look like a lazy or foolish townie. And there are things I refuse to do to win a mafia game, such as lurking.

I have my own code of honor, and I get more satisfaction from winning if I pull the wool over your eyes in a flawless manner, not in this absurdly flawed and idiotic manner.

Note well that this entire line of questioning I purposefully brought ON MYSELF and stayed to answer your questions. If mafia have ever done that before, I will be surprised.






In spite of your doubts about me, can you not see there is logic in what I'm doing, in spite of the risks? I trust that you can. In spite of the track record, I still have faith in town to "get" me eventually.

[Askthepizzaguy]

But what you said was going to bring heat on you really doesn't. Who cares about a little wifom?

It's hardly a little.

I'm not familiar with your post. Right now you and sigurd would be my top two to vote for. Sigurd because he's lurking and thus not revealing much, and you because you're doing the opposite. The amount of long winded zaniness you post makes people miss the trees for the forest. If you had just posted your attack on shlin you would have drawn suspicion for it as it was a weak attack based on a careless reading. But it gets lost in the shuffle of all your other posts. PK was successful with this kind of play as my partner in taormina. Your case on gaius was full of holes as well. I don't intend to post a long rebuttal because I don't object to people being prodded and having to defend themselves and I think it's fairly evident to those who read it carefully (if anyone bothered).

In summary, it's an anti-town posting style like lurking is and that makes you a good candidate for an early lynch.

This is the same argument that everyone always uses against me when I do this, and it's always wrong.

And when I am mafia I am more subtle about my own alignment status. I don't parade around going "lynch me, lynch me" because I KNOW YOU WILL. YOU GUYS WILL ALWAYS LYNCH ME.




I'm just saying. You're only stroking my ego when you suggest I'd be this bold, so thank you for the compliment. I will continue to help out after I am dead, but you could always ask yourself if it follows for a mafia to try to get lynched, especially when that would LIMIT THEM TO ONE MURDER.



Clues, guys. Clues.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Nothing else?

Ok. I had planned on leaving at 9PM but I didn't want to skip out of being questioned. I'm leaving in a few minutes, so if you have further questions about me please pose them now.


Sometimes, when playing these games, I think what might be happening is that you're observing the kind of behavior that's coming from me, but you're disregarding the content. The behavior coming from me is undoubtedly questionable, but the content makes no sense if I were mafia.

The options:

1. I am a townie, and I have a point about what I am saying.

If you listen to me carefully and work it out for yourself, it's highly unlikely any mafia would do this, and even me, in spite of my crazy gambits. Because:

2. As mafia, I am virtually guaranteeing you will lynch me. Because town always does. It's automatic. Anytime anyone steps forward and does this set of behavior, it always results in that person's death, in the immediate future or in the now.

It does not follow that a mafia would do this, because the "gambit" fails when it succeeds. You believe I'm guilty, you lynch me, mafia has one less kill per night (What a coup for town!) and you also don't believe anything I say because I am proven mafia.



I'm shooting myself in the foot and yelping like a scalded dog, or like a pizza guy who intentionally shot his foot off. If I have devious reasons for doing so, it won't matter, because you'll kill me anyway AND I will have almost single-handedly ruined the game for the mafia. Bravo.

I don't think that's a likely scenario, and until I see it happen in a game, I am using it to prove my innocence. You can ignore the logic, but it's still there.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Would you perhaps swear to me that you aren't mafia? In a sentence like "I swear that I am not a mafioso"

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

oh, and make sure you get the capitalization right

[Beefy187]

Would you perhaps swear to me that you aren't mafia? In a sentence like "I swear that I am not a mafioso"

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

oh, and make sure you get the capitalization right

mind you.. last time we tried that "truth" thing, CR found a loop hole and managed to fool us all

[Askthepizzaguy]

Through my actions, and by planting myself intentionally on this course towards sure self-destruction, I already have sworn to you that I am not a mafia.

Saying so will prove nothing, actions speak louder. But if you need to hear the words, for whatever reason:

I swear I am not mafia. I swear I am a townie. I swear I have no role. You will be just fine if I die. You will do better if I do not. You will do better if mafia is forced to kill me. That is why I am trying to be removed from the suspect list... mafia will have no choice but to kill me.

I am betting they don't want me, with my big inquisitive mouth, my vote, and my analysis system, to remain an active part of the game in the final stages. I need to die before then for them to have a better chance of victory. And in doing so, they waste a kill on a non-detective and give me a free hand to persecute them.

Darned if you do... darned if you don't.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I swear that I am not a mafioso.

I want to make sure I repeated it verbatim.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

mind you.. last time we tried that "truth" thing, CR found a loop hole and managed to fool us all

Funny story eh?

[Askthepizzaguy]

Ok I'm curious. Anyone have a link so I can be in on the joke?

[Beefy187]

Funny story eh?

"Truth" only works because CR built the reputation of not lying. ATPG swearing means nothing and even if it does he can still find his loop hole

But I do like honest peoples. They make my life more cheerful and bright until I find out that they betrayed me after all.. Cough Gaius..Cough!

[GeneralHankerchief]

Mafia VII.

It's >1400 posts, and I don't feel like looking for the exact one.

But basically CR, known for his reputation of being a truthteller, said he was not "mafia" and not "Mafia" to get by them asking him for his role (or lack, thereof). He was mafia (or Mafia).

[Askthepizzaguy]

"Truth" only works because CR built the reputation of not lying. ATPG swearing means nothing and even if it does he can still find his loop hole

But I do like honest peoples. They make my life more cheerful and bright until I find out that they betrayed me after all.. Cough Gaius..Cough!

Ah, but that's just it... track record alone means nothing.

More yakking:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I had a track record of being super townie and would side with them no matter what. Then, when offered the choice to be town of mafia in "You Can't Win", I chose mafia, and gambled on my reputation as being pro-town that no one would suspect my neutral aligned character went bad. Quintus.JC believed me.

Anyone can break with tradition. That's why, if I were banking on my reputation alone here, this would be a bad move. I lie, and I love to lie. Crafting a fantastically believable lie is part of the fun of mafia. But, some things are scummy no matter what, and some things aren't scummy, or if they are scummy are inherently bad for the mafia.

If I do this as mafia, I would lose. If I do this as townie, and the message is heard, we win. If the mafia get the hint and start to bluff, doing this tactic, chances are they will die a foolish death. It's a win/win/win scenario. And when this fails, and you lynch me, and there's two murders still, I win again, and proven a point at the same time.

It's never been done before and it has a really bad chance of succeeding if it's a scum move, so maybe the benefit of the doubt this time coupled with Occam's razor and a little bit of deductive reasoning and playing the odds? That's what I'm asking for.


It's now 1:22 past when I was going to leave, and as delightful as the theoretical discussion is, I concede that prolonging it will be distracting, and nothing I say or do at this point will be further helpful nor will it further clear me, it will be counter-productive.

We'll see if I survive the night, and the next day, and I'll be back to open my big cake hole when I return. All I ask is that you either ignore the entirety of what I am saying, chalk it up to me being me and not read it (too much to read) or you do the work and read it, reason it out, and draw a conclusion.

What I hate is the lazy glances at the wall o' text and therefore declare it equals scum, because that's me, always.

Wall o text hiding in spoilers.

[Beefy187]

Ah, but that's just it... track record alone means nothing.

More yakking:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I had a track record of being super townie and would side with them no matter what. Then, when offered the choice to be town of mafia in "You Can't Win", I chose mafia, and gambled on my reputation as being pro-town that no one would suspect my neutral aligned character went bad. Quintus.JC believed me.

Anyone can break with tradition. That's why, if I were banking on my reputation alone here, this would be a bad move. I lie, and I love to lie. Crafting a fantastically believable lie is part of the fun of mafia. But, some things are scummy no matter what, and some things aren't scummy, or if they are scummy are inherently bad for the mafia.

If I do this as mafia, I would lose. If I do this as townie, and the message is heard, we win. If the mafia get the hint and start to bluff, doing this tactic, chances are they will die a foolish death. It's a win/win/win scenario. And when this fails, and you lynch me, and there's two murders still, I win again, and proven a point at the same time.

It's never been done before and it has a really bad chance of succeeding if it's a scum move, so maybe the benefit of the doubt this time coupled with Occam's razor and a little bit of deductive reasoning and playing the odds? That's what I'm asking for.


It's now 1:22 past when I was going to leave, and as delightful as the theoretical discussion is, I concede that prolonging it will be distracting, and nothing I say or do at this point will be further helpful nor will it further clear me, it will be counter-productive.

We'll see if I survive the night, and the next day, and I'll be back to open my big cake hole when I return. All I ask is that you either ignore the entirety of what I am saying, chalk it up to me being me and not read it (too much to read) or you do the work and read it, reason it out, and draw a conclusion.

What I hate is the lazy glances at the wall o' text and therefore declare it equals scum, because that's me, always.

Wall o text hiding in spoilers.

Scum

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Were you expecting a clown? Well no. ATPG is a scum and heres the proof

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[TinCow]

Egads, yet another game in which ATPG destroys all conversation just to focus attention on himself. Seriously, this is getting tiresome.

[Gaius Scribonius Curio]

OK, I'm back the next afternoon as I said I would be. Even though a number of people have made statements supporting me I feel it would be fair to answer ATPG's case against me in one post. His major points: I'm not posting often enough; my posts are longwinded but essentially inconclusive; my disappearance last night was staged; my posts sound 'forced' and 'fertilised'; and my pick-up of my kill description being lifted was 'too convenient'. I believe that is all at this stage, but please correct me if I am wrong.

Firstly, to the accusation that I am not posting enough. Essentially you are saying that I am lurking, which would be a false assertion. I turn up, at least once a day, post my thoughts on the kill write-ups and on the major talking points of the day/night, and then vote. Yes my votes have been seemingly random, that is in the absence of any hard evidence. I'm posting enough to have caught your attention with my posts, therefore I am posting sufficiently often. Are you arguing that my behaviour is impeding the Town's efforts to find the mafia? If so say that, and stop being vague.

ATPG claims my 'analyses are hollow'. They are speculations and musings at this early stage. As I said yesterday would you prefer I said nothing? I'm not expecting to turn up a mafioso with my observations, but it makes sense to make note of any inconsistencies, because later on when there is more information, and more inconsistencies we will be able to see what has already been recorded. It is also claimed that I conclude nothing. I answer that it is dangerous to draw conclusions from too little information, hence why my musings are so loosely relevant.

To the calls that my disappearance was staged, I assert that even as I posted my thoughts on the previous day, I specifically said that I had a football game. This, Ladies and Gentlemen of the jury was before ATPG even confronted me. I did stick around longer than I should have and was almost late. You will be pleased to know that despite this setback my team won through to the semi-finals and avoided drawing the only undefeated team in the league. ATPG tried to illustrate that I didn't care about this game. That is a mistake. I enjoy my sport certainly, and play 5 days a week, and it is true that I am also working full-time while I am off university, but as I have noted before I make my effort to come online every day and contribute my thoughts.

ATPG believes that my posts sound 'fertilised'. I have no idea whether this is true or not, however I don't believe that I am posting in a way any different to that which I usually do. I'm certainly not spending any more time than usual on my choice of words... I can't prove anything in this regard but neither can ATPG.

Finally, ATPG claims that it rather convenient that I managed to spot my own kill description and bring it to our attention. Do you really think so little of me that I would draw attention to myself in such a high-profile way when I had been out of the spotlight, were I a mafioso? Someone, I believe it was Beefy, also pointed out that I would only have about 4 to choose from. It is certainly unlikely that someone is attempting to do more than disguise their own writing style, so how would it benefit me as a mafioso to bring attention to my own writing?

I trust, ladies and gentlemen of the jury that I have not bored you to my with my defence. Good day to you....

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

And Beefy, just for the record, I never actually denied being mafia, it just never came up...

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Kojiro-san tried that as a tactic for a while, but then shifted away. He's still active, but not frenetic. Pizza is frenetic.

Sasaki:

To the extent that this means anything {limited}, Pizza is usually a very heavy poster in mafia games. I'd have to do a post count, but I believe we'd find he's slightly less active when mafia than when town.

[Beefy187]

@Gaius

Well im "gullible" (Quote: Gaius 08) after all

Just so the same thing doesn't happen again... Are you a cold hearted killer Gaius?

EDIT

@ Seamus

You seem to be correct. Look at Teddy Snatcher. He single handedly made half the post in the entire thread and he turned out to be innocent.

[White_eyes:D]

@ Seamus

You seem to be correct. Look at Teddy Snatcher. He single handedly made half the post in the entire thread and he turned out to be innocent.

I know.....and we lost because he was always looking at what the Mafia's(Khaan) said If only you had lynched me when you had the chance.... in the "Teddy bear Snatcher" but instead you over-analyzed Khaan and my name came-up twice mentioned...."whoops WE is guilty" and we only had one round left....and the same thing happened with TinCow in "Chicago soiree" which was quite a lurker victory....(I will never redeem myself for that....) I think you were quite sure TinCow was Mafia in that one as well (even lynching yourself).....

[Gaius Scribonius Curio]

@ Beefy: The one occaision I have indulged I've killed with a smile and 'shame that I have to do this'... Make of that what you will.

Also, just to make it clear that I don't think that ATPG is guilty, and I certainly don't find his mammoth post count suspicious, I merely know that he is mistaken on the matter of my guilt.

[Beefy187]

@ Beefy: The one occaision I have indulged I've killed with a smile and 'shame that I have to do this'... Make of that what you will.

Also, just to make it clear that I don't think that ATPG is guilty, and I certainly don't find his mammoth post count suspicious, I merely know that he is mistaken on the matter of my guilt.

Its ok..I forgive you.. But like I said in the end of that mafia game (well at least I think I did) Ill have my revenge eventually...

@White_eyes

At least ATPG is giving his best effort to catch the scums. Even if the mammoth posts can be hollow in terms of the quality, its still giving us some directions to walk towards and creating discussion. Though whether to trust him or not is our choice to make.

I don't think Gaius is guilty but ATPG did make a couple of good posts. But even without it, I would never keep my eyes off Gaius after that incident

[boudica]

Egads, yet another game in which ATPG destroys all conversation just to focus attention on himself. Seriously, this is getting tiresome.

Its WIFOM-WIAP (Wine in front of me when I'm already pished)

ATPG - you're asking for mafia to kill you and constantly claiming that people are going to lynch you anyway. If I were alive I'd vote for you as I think you're making it easier for mafia.

Your inquisition is great for town, but leave some room between your posts for other people to say something constructive/ incriminate themselves.

Say for instance that every game you play as town you spam the board in order to prove your innocence. At some point when you ARE mafia, it would be a rational strategy to spam the board in order to prove your innocence - that's why I'd vote to lynch you every time you play this way.

@Everyone: WHo would you pick to be your soldiers if you were Godfather?

I found the finger pointing going on between Jolt and Little Grizzly quite interesting. I'd certainly pick LG as a soldier if I were Godfather and I found his suspicions of Jolt to be a little bit pre-fab. Innocent or guilty I shall haunt his posts for a while

[Beefy187]

@Everyone: WHo would you pick to be your soldiers if you were Godfather?

If I was going for victory then, Ichigo+ Sasaki. I would love to see them under my command.

If I was going for lols and giggles then Ares and Reenk. I think we'll make a good team

[Reenk Roink]

@Everyone: WHo would you pick to be your soldiers if you were Godfather?

Seamus would be one and I won't tell you the second (it would be off a list of potential suitors).

Ah heck I'll tell ya! I was going for Seamus and Beefy had I gotten to be the Godfather.

Seamus would be the first choice because of old timessakes. Practical reasons in his favor would be that he's one of the best at keeping his behavior and he always seems to be innocent looking and live long.

Beefy because I still must work with this extremely nice and funny guy. You can't win was so incomplete. Practical reason is that Beefy is amazing as Mafia as you have all seen.

I also considered an elite veteran Seamus - Sigurd tandem but Sigurd has won far far too much so I know he understands that I would share the wealth.

I also considered Aries and White eyes for spots. Unfortunately they tend to get lynched through no fault of their own, but are very funny guys and I know for a fact White eyes is really good (Aries probably is too). And the most important thing is that they play the game like I like to play.

I also considered YLC who I never got to play a game with as Mafia, but talked with him a lot when he hosted Whispers. Plus even though suspicion is on him, he always stays alive.

[Jolt]

I'd pick TinCow and Seamus. Just 'cause their the admins and they'd be able to delete other people posts lynching me. :P

Good choices young padawan! We are very grateful for the respect you show us ! - TinCow & Seamus

[GeneralHankerchief]

Well, I know who I'd pick.

[TinCow]

An interesting question. My gut instinct would be to go with one high-profile person and one low-profile person, for flexibility. However, there's also a part of me that would consider a Sasaki/Reenk Roink pairing or Seamus/Andres just for sheer boldness. The idea of an 'all green' mafia might be amusing enough to me for it to win out in the end.

[GeneralHankerchief]

As I have class until 14:00 EST today, the night writeup will be a little late.

[Andres]

I would either go for random.org or a combination of "low profile/luker players", like seireikhaan (an excellent mafioso, usually flies under the radar until late midgame+ has very creative ideas) and boudica/glyphz (I was very impressed by those two in Ephesus; they belong into the "survivor" category as they don't seem to draw suspicion easily).

[White_eyes:D]

I would go with a Reenk/Sasaki combo.....Reenk:Awesome in fooling town and just plain bullfloping.....Sasaki: it's like he possess a 6th Mafia sense.....