The Godfather, Part 3 [Concluded]

[shlin28]

Meh, I suppose...If that is the case, I say that it is a relatively experienced mafia pulling this off, as few "newbies" would pull that off.

[TinCow]

True, but how many true n00bs are there in this game? Pretty much everyone on the list has been in enough mafia games to know a basic mafia tactic like intentionally killing fewer people than they could. I'm not saying to completely ignore the evidence, just don't lynch someone exclusively on that basis.

[Sigurd]

Voting me to keep me afloat is not necessary guys. I have no role.

I must object to the accusations of me being a lurker. The game has barely begun and have 21 living players. This is your sole case against me if I am not mistaken. Ergo I think it is a invented accusation to "help" me stay off the Mafia radar.
I am not the detective should anyone think so.

Sasaki is making a case against YLC and I find it interesting. Why not?

vote: YLC.

I have not forgotten rule #1 and sooner or later we will have to take that discussion. But not yet. The game is still young.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Vote: Sigurd

Siggy old bean, your post count and unverbose posting style is very much in line with mafia play by you, as recently demonstrated. Let us hear your perspective please.


Tincow:

I am now willing to view you as innocent......so, to add to your point regarding me and the "lifting" of previous methods. YES, I could use that as a theme, and I do love themes in mafia gaming. However, my sense of the dramatic would demand that I narrate the perps as making a purposeful homage to the previous methods. If you scan my kill summaries in capo or my efforts with the biblical murders when mafioso (I forget the fame number), you'll see what I mean.


The sharpest part about the whole thing is that it DOES serve to minimize "style" pickups in the kill writeups. A shrewd move by our mafiosi. One of the team, at least, is not an impulsive player.

[Sigurd]

Vote: Sigurd

Siggy old bean, your post count and unverbose posting style is very much in line with mafia play by you, as recently demonstrated. Let us hear your perspective please.

Hehe... I nearly edited you post. I wondered why there was no quote tags.

I don't have much to contribute with yet.
I think we did a mistake by rushing out to analyse the writeups after night one. A smart Mafia moves with the flow and cover their tracks if they sense the bloodhounds on their heels.
We should have waited a few more rounds before scrutinising the write up texts.

I voted YLC to see if Sasaki's accusations would make YLC talk. Apparently he will sit tight as long as someone else is being lynched.

My take on the choice of the latest kill, is that the Mafia wants attention. I have a small suspicion, but I am going to sit on it and make it mature a bit.

Lynching me would only rob me of a vote. I am sure the kills will be back up at two a round soon enough and I can continue as a confirmed innocent.

[TinCow]

Tossing more stuff out there to ponder. GH has been intentionally including the nude juggler guy and the boombox guy in each night phase write-up. Every day, the boombox guy is playing a different song, and it is always bolded. Perhaps this is GH giving us some sort of clue, as it seems like a strange detail to add otherwise. The songs so far:

"Karn Evil 9, First Impression, Part 2" by Emerson, Lake, and Palmer
Perry Mason by Ozzy Osbourne
"Woke Up This Morning" by Alabama Three

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I voted YLC to see if Sasaki's accusations would make YLC talk. Apparently he will sit tight as long as someone else is being lynched.

If he doesn't respond to that he'll be lynched pretty soon...

[ULC]

If he doesn't respond to that he'll be lynched pretty soon...

And? So?

Vote: YLC

I don't think I will be able to contribute much at all anymore, I've been progressively getting busier. Easier to lynch me now while the opportunity stands. I don't think any of you will have a problem with this since it will be easy enough for me to come back, dead or alive, and still contribute at a later date.

[Chaotix]

I would pick (If i wanted to win):

-Chaotix (he rarely gets lynched early, i think he could weave himself through a few rounds at least)

Well, thank you. I am flattered to think that others actually consider me to be a halfway decent mafia player. In actuality, I believe I've only won a single game as mafia. (although I did come pretty close and fool FactionHeir in Resident Evil...)

Back on topic:

Sigurd is lurking, whether or not he admits it, and this does concern me. However, what may make him look slightly more innocent is the fact that he has been lurking in YLC's mafia game as well- this leads me to believe that he is much less active perhaps for real-life reasons rather than him being scum. This is not to say he couldn't be scum anyway, though.

While I would love to just jump on a bandwagon and vote either Sigurd or YLC now, I realize that I may very well not show up to change it later once the situation turns my extra vote into a lynch decider. For that reason, I will instead vote: Glyphz for lurking and (hopefully) be back later once I make up my mind.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

And? So?

Vote: YLC

I don't think I will be able to contribute much at all anymore, I've been progressively getting busier. Easier to lynch me now while the opportunity stands. I don't think any of you will have a problem with this since it will be easy enough for me to come back, dead or alive, and still contribute at a later date.

Eh? Why don't you explain your thought process earlier instead?

[Sigurd]

True, but how many true n00bs are there in this game? Pretty much everyone on the list has been in enough mafia games to know a basic mafia tactic like intentionally killing fewer people than they could. I'm not saying to completely ignore the evidence, just don't lynch someone exclusively on that basis.

3. Friendliness. Be nice to our new and old players. We should also strive to help new players feel welcome. Words or comments like n00b are specially frowned upon.

Ergo, Concordantly, vis a vis ...

[Beefy187]

And? So?

Vote: YLC

I don't think I will be able to contribute much at all anymore, I've been progressively getting busier. Easier to lynch me now while the opportunity stands. I don't think any of you will have a problem with this since it will be easy enough for me to come back, dead or alive, and still contribute at a later date.

Ask one of the dead players to replace you or ask for suicide would be a better option then being lynched.

[TevashSzat]

And? So?

Vote: YLC

I don't think I will be able to contribute much at all anymore, I've been progressively getting busier. Easier to lynch me now while the opportunity stands. I don't think any of you will have a problem with this since it will be easy enough for me to come back, dead or alive, and still contribute at a later date.

Now this is a bit strange......Before YLC's self vote, Sigurd had 3 votes on him while YLC only had 1 which was from Sigurd.

A productive and useful townie would actually make a case towards a defence. Trying to state that you're getting really busy so just lynch me is a bad idea since the town would be wasting a lynch and you could just go get WOGed later on if your activity stays truly low....

Also, just because you were lynched doesn't mean that you're innocent. Don't try to say the mafiosos won't do so because that just leads to WIFOM.

Anyways, I will Vote:YLC for now.

Edit: updating tally

Tally:

Sigurd: 3 (Sasaki, Andres, Seamus)
YLC: 3 (Tevash, Sigurd, YLC)

Glyphz: 1 (Chaotix)
Taka: 1 (Beefy)

[LittleGrizzly]

you missed a vote for glyphz off chaotix, need a little more time for my vote... will give it in a bit..

[Beefy187]

Vote: Taka

Pressure vote until some other juicy suspects comes up.

I think Taka got too much of a innocent scent on him. But as long as he lurks and posts enough to avoid the WoGs, he got a good chance of victory if he is a mafia.

[taka]

Vote: Taka

Pressure vote until some other juicy suspects comes up.

I think Taka got too much of a innocent scent on him. But as long as he lurks and posts enough to avoid the WoGs, he got a good chance of victory if he is a mafia.

just like in your game?

i've not read thru the thread but assuming that last night had only one kill means that its better for us as we have more time to suss out the other mafia. Or cast more scummyness on each other

[ULC]

Defend myself? Why on earth would I defend myself? And allowing a dead player to take my place or another person to take it can change the dynamic of the game - I'm not just a statistic, I am a dynamic player.

My innocence or guilt is not really the question after death, it's whether or not I can actually be helpful. According to Reenk, I am a vengeful dead player who becomes spiteful if lynched (and continues playing). This means as town, I will become unhelpful. As mafia, I wouldn't be helpful to begin with. In either case, after death I am not helpful.

WoG's and Lynches influence the game in different ways. Lynches minimize casualties compared to WoG's. If I am lynched, it's better for the town then to simply let someone become WoGged. Statistically speaking, it is in fact better to lynch the inactive players then active ones from night 3 onwards. Simply sitting back and waiting for someone to get WoGged is a reactive rather then a active strategy. Since we are the ones in a deficit of knowlegde, that would be a losing strategy.

Now, to get those votes off of Sigurd

Unvote: YLC
Vote: Sigurd

[TinCow]

Ergo, Concordantly, vis a vis ...

Eh... but I was saying that people weren't n00bs...

[LittleGrizzly]

I will vote Jolt for reasons gven yesterday and his response to those reasons...

[Beefy187]

If my skill of remembering with out the write ups are correct then taka is the only player who fits the category of the lurker.

Other players has above 10 posts.

Unvote: taka

I'll do a little search on how Jolt and Glyphz has been acting..

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Defend myself? Why on earth would I defend myself?

Is this a trick question?

If I am lynched, it's better for the town then to simply let someone become WoGged.
Now, to get those votes off of Sigurd

Unvote: YLC
Vote: Sigurd

Lynching is the only way for the town to kill the mafia and we only have so many chances. Each one is precious. In Capo II we had 20 townies WoG'd, your saying it would have been better for the town if we'd lynched them all instead? The town would have lost the game badly*. I also don't see why you'd vote yourself and talk about how it's better to lynch you and then turn around and vote to save yourself. Doesn't make sense for a townie to play this way.

*by that I mean even more badly than they did

Tally:

Sigurd: 4 (Sasaki, Andres, Seamus, YLC)
YLC: 2 (Tevash, Sigurd)

Glyphz: 1 (Chaotix)
Jolt: 1 (LittleGrizzly)

[Beefy187]

I second Sasakis comment.

YLC you played enough game to know that lynching is valuable and are the only way to get rid of the mafia. If you are innocent you wouldn't dare get your self lynched would you?

[ULC]

Is this a trick question?





Lynching is the only way for the town to kill the mafia and we only have so many chances. Each one is precious. In Capo II we had 20 townies WoG'd, your saying it would have been better for the town if we'd lynched them all instead? The town would have lost the game badly*. I also don't see why you'd vote yourself and talk about how it's better to lynch you and then turn around and vote to save yourself. Doesn't make sense for a townie to play this way.

*by that I mean even more badly than they did

Tally:

Sigurd: 4 (Sasaki, Andres, Seamus, YLC)
YLC: 2 (Tevash, Sigurd)

Glyphz: 1 (Chaotix)
Jolt: 1 (LittleGrizzly)

First, no, I never defend myself, just my arguments. Saying I am a townie does not make me a townie, since I would lack proof of to back the statement "I am innocent".

Indeed, but statistically speaking, to preserve numbers, it is more efficient to kill lurkers. Say we have 20 people - 10 are active, 10 are lurking, giving a 50% activity rate. If we lynch a Lurker, and 2 townies die, we achieve a 47-59% activity rate, depending on whom is killed. If, on the other hand, we lynch an active player, and 2 townies die, then we only have a 41-52% activity rate, which is a 6-7% difference. Since mafia tend to aim for active players, one should look at low end figures for activity rate.

That may seem in contradiction of what I have previously argued (Ichigo). It is in fact not so, since I am of the opinion that one can only consider another person "Lurking" after Night 3, which is basically 2 days of inactivity. Ichigo had not yet fulfilled that descriptor.

I voted Sigurd in the hopes that you would see the nonsensical move as bad townie behavior. Bad townie behavior results obtaining votes and people switching their votes from the more helpful member. I perceive Sigurd as innocent, and wish to die, ergo, by playing the "bad townie card", votes would move from Sigurd to me, saving Sigurd and lynching me, thus accomplishing my goals. If this does not result in saving Sigurd, then I will continue to do whatever I deem fit to accomplish my goals.

[ULC]

I second Sasakis comment.

YLC you played enough game to know that lynching is valuable and are the only way to get rid of the mafia. If you are innocent you wouldn't dare get your self lynched would you?

Be aware that you are creating a WIFOM situation by saying I am innocent or guilty. If I am innocent, then why would I behave badly? If I were guilty, why would I behave badly? Both of those suppositions will only lead to WIFOM. It's better to analyze motive, then intent. Always ask why, not whatfor.

[taka]

only mafia use the term wifom to confuse people. the common townie (like myself) should not be using the term as it is bad practice. are you mafia?

[ULC]

Another bad practice is to ask innocence or guilt, taka, since neither can be answered truthfully, and to ask it based upon analyzing behavior is another way to create WIFOM. "Why would he act terribly?" is the more effective question, since it analyzes the person's motive, rather then asking a rhetorical, circular series of questions., and can have a definitive reaction and response to it.

To go further, you state you are a townie - where is your proof that you are innocent? What supporting facts or logical path of thought can be used to prove your statement that you are a "common townie"?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

People like atpg and ylc make me wish I had a vigilante role...

Mafia is more fun if you treat it as a communal effort, trust me.

YLC, if you are town, you may have dug yourself deep enough that the town will lynch you before the game is over. In that case you'd be correct in that it's better now than in a late round. But you have no basis to argue that Sigurd is innocent--it's not hard to appear innocent for 3 rounds and 15 posts, that's why we hardly ever catch mafia this early.

[ULC]

People like atpg and ylc make me wish I had a vigilante role...

Mafia is more fun if you treat it as a communal effort, trust me.

YLC, if you are town, you may have dug yourself deep enough that the town will lynch you before the game is over. In that case you'd be correct in that it's better now than in a late round. But you have no basis to argue that Sigurd is innocent--it's not hard to appear innocent for 3 rounds and 15 posts, that's why we hardly ever catch mafia this early.

It's simply my opinion that Sigurd is innocent - thus not set in stone nor fact, and can therefore be argued. If you wish to debate over the merits of Sigurd versus me, do so, however, I have obviously stacked things in Sigurd's favor. It is my opinion, and I am willing to die for it.

But to go on what you said - It's also hard to argue that Sigurd is guilty

[taka]

the question i asked was not a question to be answered - it is a question to remind yourself of who you are. if you are indeed a townie then i would suggest that you stop this wifom thing because atm it makes you horribly scummy in terms of behaviour. i personally do not take in wifom as its just a on-going loop of gibberish.

and yes, i have no proof that i am townie, neither has any of the other players playing. but at least i dont act scummy to try to confuse the already confused town

[Chaotix]

YLC, why bother signing up and playing the game in the first place if you're just going to be uncooperative and try to get yourself killed? It's a waste of a sign-up, and now this is going to be a waste of a lynch, too, because the mafia is getting of scot-free this round.

All the attention's drawn onto you, and the mafia doesn't have to hide at all, because their behavior, even is poor, would probably make them look like saints standing next your general behavior in the thread. I generally don't like to go and bash players like this, but for this game at least you are worse than useless because of all of your deliberate WIFOM and self-votes and suicidal tendencies. Do you even want your side to win? Mafia or Town, you're not doing a very good job of helping your team.

Unvote, Vote: YLC

Now you must die, and next round we can get back to lynching mafiosi.