The Godfather, Part 3 [Concluded]

[Beefy187]

I have to put my vote on Beefy. The way he jumped to attack YLC seemed very agressive.

Vote: Beefy

Attacked? Attacked how? I didn't even vote for him!

I only suggested to suicide or get replaced rather then wasting a lynch for him!

[Sigurd]

I am disappointed in you guys. You are lynching a townie for more or less no reason.

The game has not lasted long enough for anyone to be considered a lurker. And your paranoia is getting the better of reason. What happened to start each game with a clean sheet? You are all voting based on the fact that I have been successful in past games which indeed is not at all relevant in this one. It's all argumentum ad antiquitatem.

I will however change my vote to the one I think is responsible.
This all smacks of Reenk craziness
Reenk jumps on the bandwagon giving no reason and at the same time give praises to the mafia. You always like to leave little clues here and there.

unvote: YLC, vote: Reenk Roink

The others voting me for no or at best flimsy reasons will receive scrutiny. Yes I am looking at you taka and Gaius.

[LittleGrizzly]

Firstly I have to say i feel a little ucomfortable that we are going by sasaki's suspects, YLC he built a case against, and then Sigurd he mentioned in his list and voted for. Since that post YLC and Sigurd have been the only ones in the running, not that sasaki is definetely scum but i always thinks its a bit dangerous to have one person basically setting the tone for the possible lynches, this is part of the reason i stuck with my Jolt vote as a means to offer an alternative..

Secondly YLC your attitude stinks, the town is supposed to work together but you seem determined to work against it, whatever you think of Sigurd you now for sure your 100% innocent (assuming you aren't the mafia) and thus you should actively try to stay alive for the sake of the town, the only good reason to sacrifice yourself is to save some kind of power town role....

I think if your aim is to keep Sigurd alive, you have failed and actively encouraged some people to work against you and lynch Sigurd. If you are scum and your aim is to prove your innocence, again you have failed, you have proven your a bad townie and will probably be lynched at some point when were struggling to think off good lynch targets, and this is where we shall waste a valuable lynch if you are not scum..

so a bad townie or some very risky mafia play...

[ULC]

*sighs* Ah, the inablility and blindness of others sometimes. It's all well and good though.

I bet the mafia are sure they are 100% innocent as well too. In fact, everyone is innocent, just ask them. My being innocent to myself does nothing, proves nothing, and should not be used in anyway shape or form to decide my own actions, since it obviously has no barring on others as well.

[Andres]

*sighs* Ah, the inablility and blindness of others sometimes. It's all well and good though.

I bet the mafia are sure they are 100% innocent as well too. In fact, everyone is innocent, just ask them. My being innocent to myself does nothing, proves nothing, and should not be used in anyway shape or form to decide my own actions, since it obviously has no barring on others as well.

Ehm, so, if you're own behaviour seems scummy to you, you're going to vote yourself, even if you know for sure that you're innocent?



That doesn't help your team, now does it?

If you think Sigurd is innocent and if you know you're innocent yourself, then why don't you take a look at other possible suspects? If you would stop focusing on yourself, the accusations against you and Sigurd, and read the posts to find a suspect, then who seems the most suspicious to you?

That would be more helpful than just sighing

[ULC]

*pokes* Like I said, blind. And it is good you remain so.

[Andres]

*pokes* Like I said, blind. And it is good you remain so.

By all means, open my eyes. Through pm if necessary.

[LittleGrizzly]

*sighs* Ah, the inablility and blindness of others sometimes. It's all well and good though.

For someone who thinks of themself as a bad player you sure seem to think you now a lot better than everyone else...

I bet the mafia are sure they are 100% innocent as well too.

Anyone you ask will tell you they are innocent...

My being innocent to myself does nothing, proves nothing, and should not be used in anyway shape or form to decide my own actions, since it obviously has no barring on others as well.

Noone can know who is innocent and who is not, if you are just a regular townie you can only ever be sure of your own innocence, and that is why you never sacrifice yourself for another (unless you strongly believe they are a power role) because whilst you are 100% sure of your innocence considering sigurd's limited contributions you can be nowhere near as sure of sigurd's innocence...

So you are basically (assuming your a townie) lynching a gaurenteed innocent to save someone who you 'think' isn't mafia...

Which is.... bad play...

[Reenk Roink]

I am disappointed in you guys. You are lynching a townie for more or less no reason.

The game has not lasted long enough for anyone to be considered a lurker. And your paranoia is getting the better of reason. What happened to start each game with a clean sheet? You are all voting based on the fact that I have been successful in past games which indeed is not at all relevant in this one. It's all argumentum ad antiquitatem.

I will however change my vote to the one I think is responsible.
This all smacks of Reenk craziness
Reenk jumps on the bandwagon giving no reason and at the same time give praises to the mafia. You always like to leave little clues here and there.

unvote: YLC, vote: Reenk Roink

The others voting me for no or at best flimsy reasons will receive scrutiny. Yes I am looking at you taka and Gaius.

Hello Sigurd

I assure you I care not for the town's bandwagon. Of course I know too well that the charge of lurking is much too early. Also I don't believe it fits. Also, I don't believe you to be one who will use the same tactics.

However, I am not the Mafia Sigurd. I may be crazy but I'm not careless with my life.

Besides, the Godfather would obviously choose the better man.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

...Besides, the Godfather would obviously choose the better man.

But Boudica was already killed....

[Andres]

However, I do not Sigurd lynched. To make sure Sigurd is not lynched, I have to intentionally do something to prevent that. If I were to not be lynched, then Sigurd would be.

And Chaotix, sorry, but how on earth do you come up with the idea I am innocent? And I am also sorry for manipulating all of you to do this, but in my opinion it has to be done unless someone can point out the pros of lynching Sigurd.

Eh, wait a minute there. That doesn't make much sense.

If you're a townie, then you're 100 % sure that you're innocent, so your dead won't help your team one bit. You can never know for sure that Sigurd is innocent; indeed, even after an investigation by the detective, the Godfather will turn out to be "innocent".

So, as a townie, when given the choice of lynching yourself (100 % chance innocent) or another player (small chance of being guilty), then the other player should be lynched.

So, from the perspective of the team (and in mafia, it's all about the team, not the individual), it doesn't make sense to be willing to die.

Two other things: a) why would anyone be willing to die instead of another player in this game? In this game, the only ones having a really good reason to be lynched instead of another player, are the grunts wanting to get lynched to save their godfather; b) voting yourself is a cunning move, a last minute vote switch can easily tip the balance when you're in the lead with another player.

Considering a), your behaviour makes me want to stick to my vote for Sigurd.

[naut]

Attacked? Attacked how? I didn't even vote for him!

I only suggested to suicide or get replaced rather then wasting a lynch for him!

Yes, your right. I got you mixed up with taka somehow.

Unvote Vote: taka

[Beefy187]

Yes, your right. I got you mixed up with taka somehow.

Unvote Vote: taka

Well in that case, sorry for the ! s.. I realised that came out bit more agressive then I intended it to be.

[TinCow]

YLC, you put forth interesting mafia philosophy, but it doesn't help the town in any way in the actual game. You are now intentionally and knowingly making things difficult for the town. If you're truly townie, then you're not helping. You're a legit lynch for this reason. You've got no one but yourself to blame for a wasted lynch.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

YLC:

Voting for yourself is a very WIFOM strategy. I have done it, but only after arguing my innocence for numerous posts as an innocent townie about to be lynched. I was trying, desparately to signal that I was town. I got lynched. "I don't think you should lynch so-and-so, so kill me instead" is a really poor tactic.

The whole point of putting votes on Sigurd was to get him to respond and at length....FOR HIMSELF.

Your parsiflage has re-centered the ENTIRE discussion around you. However, it has not centered on your innocence, guilt or anything else, but on your condescending re-statements about us "not getting it" and the town frustration. WHAT HAVE WE LEARNED?


Sigurd:

Not quite sanguine about you yet, but I acknowledge that my only evidence against you -- so far -- has been brevity of posts and a post frequency that matches one of your previous "lurker mafia tactics" games. The real goal for me was to get you engaged and build evidence on you one way or the other. That process has begun, so...

Unvote: Sigurd


However, my post evaluations did not spotlight only Sigurd's behavior. Rythmic, in only 10 posts, has managed to record 6 votes. In fact, he had 5 votes in the first 6 posts. So, why such assiduous attention to not getting wogged without really putting a lot into the discussion?

Vote: Rythmic


Others of interest are Taka for his similar vote but not discuss much approach, and Grizzly/Jolt for the ongoing vote fued. That feud is classic mafia to set up a "but I voted against her/him twice!" defense. No such votes were put out when any REAL pressure might have been exerted.

THoughts?

[naut]

One word Seamus, hangover.

Also, you may want to bold your vote.

[LittleGrizzly]

and Grizzly/Jolt for the ongoing vote fued. That feud is classic mafia to set up a "but I voted against her/him twice!" defense. No such votes were put out when any REAL pressure might have been exerted.

I made both those votes when there were a fair few people left to vote, i also though i had decent reasoning behind it and explained my reasoning, i may be tempted to put a vote on a fellow mafia but i wouldn't have the guts to start the voting and questioning of my fellow scum... i think the main thing that really blows this idea out the water is Jolt's reaction, he made himself look kinda scummy with his impassioned defence, if it was a premade play between the two of us i would imagine he would have had a less scummy response...

I have basically sent a fellow mafia to the gallows once in midgaard saga II but at that point alot of suspicion was on sarathos anyway... i will explain in a little more deatil if anyone wants...

Rythmic... thats a hell of a long hagover...