The Godfather, Part 3 [Concluded]

[seireikhaan]

*sighs*

What a wasted round. Oh well, at least the town will hopefully start actual discussions in the coming rounds and focus on facts instead of pointless blibbering.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I've lynched my mafia buddies on day one and two khaan. Not on the org mind you, but I've certainly attacked them day 1 and 2 on the org and would have followed through if forced to.

Seriously khaan. Seamus put the deciding vote on reenk (and I believe it was the 2nd vote) when people trusted reenk's detective reveal. That was as crippling a blow as losing lord winter. And remember, losing a mafia buddy isn't a harsh blow if everyone believes you are innocent because you voted him! And I said yet again, lord winter was dead. Everytime I respond to you I prove my point--I'm tenacious and wouldn't have given up on him. Any mafia buddy of Lord Winters would have thought he was a goner. I've thought all was lost when my mafia team had the upper hand by a large margin.

[seireikhaan]

I've lynched my mafia buddies on day one and two khaan. Not on the org mind you, but I've certainly attacked them day 1 and 2 on the org and would have followed through if forced to.

Seriously khaan. Seamus put the deciding vote on reenk (and I believe it was the 2nd vote) when people trusted reenk's detective reveal. That was as crippling a blow as losing lord winter. And remember, losing a mafia buddy isn't a harsh blow if everyone believes you are innocent because you voted him! And I said yet again, lord winter was dead. Everytime I respond to you I prove my point--I'm tenacious and wouldn't have given up on him. Any mafia buddy of Lord Winters would have thought he was a goner. I've thought all was lost when my mafia team had the upper hand by a large margin.

Please correct me if I'm wrong- Seamus did so very, very late in the game. Am I wrong?

As for Lord Winter- HE WASN'T DEAD. IT WAS TIED. Math is math, and you can't argue that. He was on the block, no doubt. He very likely would have lasted a max of two more rounds. But guess what- that's two more kills for the mafia. Methinks you guys are lynching pizzaguy for being pizzaguy. No more, no less. And that is frankly ridiculous. To cast the lynching vote on Lord Winter is pointless for a mafioso- PARTICULARLY pizzaguy, who always seems to rankle the town regardless of what his role is. FURTHER- let's say that Pizzaguy IS a mafioso. Do you think he's the godfather?

[Thermal]

vote: Tevashszat

I'm willing to give ATPG the extra day he requested, and i'm not too keen on tevash demanding us to not vote for him Also to even out a situation whether i wouldn't personally want either dead.

[White_eyes:D]

vote: Tevashszat

I'm willing to give ATPG the extra day he requested, and i'm not too keen on tevash demanding us to not vote for him Also to even out a situation whether i wouldn't personally want either dead.

Well....after much thought, I am going with the "evil I don't know" over the "evil I do.." I am sorry ATPG but I know you will still post even after death.... Vote:ATPG I also am a little pissed at Khaan for being so cryptic....it got me and ATPG owned by Mafia the last time he listened to him....

[Quintus.JC]

Forgot to Vote: Tevash

I'm willing to give more time to ATPG.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Please correct me if I'm wrong- Seamus did so very, very late in the game. Am I wrong?

Well, now we're at the point where your just skipping parts of my post. Seamus did so late in the game. I'm saying atpg did early in the game. It's been done 100's of times khaan. It's a common sense play. If mafia never lynched their buddy, then any mafia who did so would be proven innocent to the town. This is basic mafia logic. Sorry to be condescending but you've been *sighing* at the town all day so tough.

As for Lord Winter- HE WASN'T DEAD. IT WAS TIED. Math is math, and you can't argue that. He was on the block, no doubt. He very likely would have lasted a max of two more rounds.

He was gonna die. People thought he was guilty. People didn't think I was guilty. Mafia are paranoid. Add that up.

To cast the lynching vote on Lord Winter is pointless for a mafioso- PARTICULARLY pizzaguy, who always seems to rankle the town regardless of what his role is. FURTHER- let's say that Pizzaguy IS a mafioso. Do you think he's the godfather?

You've spent the last page arguing that he must be innocent, and now you say it was pointless for him to vote that way? He could be the godfather.

[Ignoramus]

Vote: Tevashszat.

ATPG is not mafia.

[White_eyes:D]

Vote: Tevashszat.

ATPG is not mafia.

funny you pop up now......

[seireikhaan]

Well, now we're at the point where your just skipping parts of my post. Seamus did so late in the game. I'm saying atpg did early in the game. It's been done 100's of times khaan. It's a common sense play. If mafia never lynched their buddy, then any mafia who did so would be proven innocent to the town. This is basic mafia logic. Sorry to be condescending but you've been *sighing* at the town all day so tough.

100's? ORLY? This is NOT basic mafia logic so early, especially when so many kills hinge upon it. The mafia knows that their 2 kills will be halved. You don't put the sentencing on your own teammate so early. Too many missed kills.

He was gonna die. People thought he was guilty. People didn't think I was guilty. Mafia are paranoid. Add that up.

Now how can you say this? What makes you innocent and him guilty? How can you reasonably say, when you both had the same number of votes, that people only thought he was guilty and not you? Further, both you and Pizzaguy contributed to the demise of Lord Winter. By your own logic, what makes you not a scum trying to guide the town?

You've spent the last page arguing that he must be innocent, and now you say it was pointless for him to vote that way? He could be the godfather.

ATPG is not the Godfather. He's smarter than to put himself out as far as he has in this game if he was. Godfather lynched Insta-lose. Hence, Pizzaguy's behavior, although annoying at times, is distinctly non-godfather-ish.

I've lynched my mafia buddies on day one and two khaan. Not on the org mind you, but I've certainly attacked them day 1 and 2 on the org and would have followed through if forced to.

Well, gee, that's good, reliable information. You made a vote against a mafia-mate who wasn't in danger, but you would have kept it if they'd been in danger. Right. And its not even from a single .org game.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Hmmmmm..

Seirei' makes a good point about the vote on Winter; a simpler and better defense in many ways than the lengthy discussions by Pizza himself. However, it should be cautionary that single kills only do NOT provide absolute confirmation that Winter was a mafioso. All it PROVES is that the mafia have only killed one person on each successive night.

Therefore, the implied premise of khaan's defense of Pizza -- We're down to one kill, so Winter was mafia, so Pizza would never cast the deciding vote against a mafioso so early in the game -- cannot be relied upon absolutely.

I believe that assuming the mafia would never vote for their own early is a bit chancy.

I believe that assuming the mafia won't shift to one kill for a long time is also chancy.

I believe that Ignoramus has a role of some sort -- his lurking is painfully minimalist.

I will not, at present, vote for either choice. So far, I am leaning to have Pizza lynched, but I am not fully decided.

[TevashSzat]

Vote: Tevashszat.

ATPG is not mafia.

Okay, seriously.

How the heck is this not just screaming scumminess here. He lurks all game and then pops up to vote only without any discussion. Because he does vote, GH won't WOG him and people never focuses on him.


Anyways, I just realized I needed to vote again so Vote:ATPG

Again, Double FOS: Quintus, Ares, Ignoramus Can any of you guys honestly say that ATPG has built a strong case against me? Seriously guys, I know I wrote alot but it doesn't take too long to read my defence.

People are voting for me simply because they think ATPG may not be scummy. Okay, then how the heck does his unscummy nature makes me instantly guilty? Free balloon to anyone who gives me a good answer on this.

Tally:

ATPG: 4 (Sasaki, Tevash, White_eyes, Reenk)

Tevash: 3 (Quintus, Ignoramus, Ares)

[seireikhaan]

People are voting for me simply because they think ATPG may not be scummy. Okay, then how the heck does his unscummy nature makes me instantly guilty? Free balloon to anyone who gives me a good answer on this.

Its the fact that he's almost certainly not the Godfather. I am unsure about you. Certainty over uncertainty.

[TevashSzat]

Its the fact that he's almost certainly not the Godfather. I am unsure about you. Certainty over uncertainty.

How can you say for certain that Lord Winter was scummy? If indeed the mafia started only doing 1 kills, wouldn't this have thrown everyone else off?

In fact, you are basically making the lynch of Lord Winter the basis upon which you are determining who is innocent. Are you that positive that LW is scummy and ATPG is innocent that you refuse to look at any other evidence that has been put out here?

That is exactly the mentality that any mafia would relish the town to have. In fact, this whole ATPG debacle probably has them squealing in glee at how he is probably going to use up at least 2 day lynches and give them that many more kills to reduce us townie numbers.

[seireikhaan]

How can you say for certain that Lord Winter was scummy? If indeed the mafia started only doing 1 kills, wouldn't this have thrown everyone else off?

In fact, you are basically making the lynch of Lord Winter the basis upon which you are determining who is innocent. Are you that positive that LW is scummy and ATPG is innocent that you refuse to look at any other evidence that has been put out here?

That is exactly the mentality that any mafia would relish the town to have. In fact, this whole ATPG debacle probably has them squealing in glee at how he is probably going to use up at least 2 day lynches and give them that many more kills to reduce us townie numbers.

Occam's Razor.

Edit: To clarify: IF the mafia had decided to stop killing 2 per night with LW, they are halving their kills from now on. The gesture if fruitless if they do not sustain it. Further, LW's highly agitated response is further indication he was mafia. Lastly, IF the mafia decided to cut their kills, they would only do so if they thought it would make someone look highly innocent. IF ANYONE, this would implicate Sasaki as, he was the one who pushed the hardest for LW's lynch. However, I find this implausible.

[Reenk Roink]

Look khaan, you are just ignoring the fact that even if Atpg isn't Mafia (which I agree is unlikely) he very well may be some other bad guy role. If he is not even that, he is still being a hindrance to the towns cause by making bad theories and posting a ton of material clouding the real Mafia.

Given that I am fairly confident that one of Seamus or YLC is Mafia, and that their numbers are most likely lowered anyway, I think we have to upper hand and should weed out those who will go on incorrect routes later on and just cause confusion (like Atpg).

[Thermal]

Anyways, I just realized I needed to vote again so Vote:ATPG

Again, Double FOS: Quintus, Ares, Ignoramus Can any of you guys honestly say that ATPG has built a strong case against me? Seriously guys, I know I wrote alot but it doesn't take too long to read my defence.

I don't have a case against you, i said i thought neither were guilt and im balancing the vote, being aggressive and defensive is only improving the chance your scum IMO, throwing around worthless FoS' won't do you any favors, as one of the two lynch targets your in no position to cast suspicion on us, it was you after all that was suspicious enough to get 5 votes in the first place.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

As for Lord Winter- HE WASN'T DEAD. IT WAS TIED. Math is math, and you can't argue that.

You know what? I reread, and lord winter wasn't tied. He was ahead.

Lord Winter: 3 - (Sasaki, White_eyes:D, YLC)
Sasaki Kojiro: 2 - ( Reenk Roink, TevashSzat)

I guess I got involved too much in the strategy talk. I'm still 100% correct on that but it's moot now.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Sorry. But your "Math is math" quote is cracking me up now

[Beefy187]

To be honest, I don't think either of you are acting any different to what you usually play like.

ATPG : Lots of talking

Tevash: Not so much

Give me a few minutes to decide my vote please

[seireikhaan]

1) I was using the tallies at the time- perhaps someone should have corrected them.

2) Fine, clearly nobody wants my help. it. The town can figure it out on without me. Bye bye.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Hmmmmm..

Seirei' makes a good point about the vote on Winter; a simpler and better defense in many ways than the lengthy discussions by Pizza himself. However, it should be cautionary that single kills only do NOT provide absolute confirmation that Winter was a mafioso. All it PROVES is that the mafia have only killed one person on each successive night.

The proof to me is that Lord Winter has not posted since his lynch. Mafia often quit posting, townies generally at least protest their innocence--they certainly should at any rate.

btw khaan, would you mind being a little clearer about your hints you were dropping earlier? Who's the person who figured them out?

[Beefy187]

Prevote: Ignomorus

Ok clearly you are avoiding WoG.. At least give a reason. Now im starting to feel sympathy to Tevash.

[taka]

vote: Tevashszat

i worked with ATPG before i think he's trustworthy for now

[Beefy187]

Vote: ATPG

I want to let ATPG and Tevash fight it out first. We don't need to rush this lynch

[Thermal]

There really is no solid evidence in fairness


vote: abstain

Unless GH disallows it, in which i will no vote so y'know....

[GeneralHankerchief]

Abstain is fine.

"No lynch" isn't though, but only for this round, since it wasn't one of the top vote-getters.

[TevashSzat]

vote: Tevashszat

i worked with ATPG before i think he's trustworthy for now

And.......out comes the second must lurkiest player in the game. Lets look at this: Both ignoramus and taka, the 2 guys lurking the most and contributing the least have all rallied to their buddy, ATPG....

FOS: taka My list of scummy people just grows longer and longer now.....

@Ares

I got 5 votes simply because everyone who voted for me really had no case against me at all. They simply bandwagoned on ATPG because he made a really long post.

@khaan

Well, Sasaki has figured it out now. Now, ATPG definately is not guilt free..... So people don't start claiming that ATPG has been cleared b/c he voted for Lord Winter the "oh definate scummy one now"


As for those who say I'm being scummy by being aggressive/defensive. I usually would care less if I get lynched if there is actually decent evidence against me and I don't have too much to say, but this time:

The analysis is shoddy. I have a pretty good rebuttal that the people who have voted against me still haven't commented on ONCE yet and I am pretty irked.

I really hope this doesn't ending up like Scourge of Espheseus (which, if people remember, I was unjustly accused and then promptly lynched thereafter. Meanwhile, the real mafia (Sigurd, boudica) went unnoticed for relatively the whole game)

[Beefy187]

I really hope this doesn't ending up like Scourge of Espheseus (which, if people remember, I was unjustly accused and then promptly lynched thereafter. Meanwhile, the real mafia (Sigurd, boudica) went unnoticed for relatively the whole game)

And Chicago

Eagerly waiting for your rebuttal. Now we have to wait for ATPG to get on..

[naut]

Vote: TevashSzat For the same reason as before.

Edit: I read your defence and it actually weakened any thoughts I had of not voting for you. You sound too desperate.

I got 5 votes simply because everyone who voted for me really had no case against me at all. They simply bandwagoned on ATPG because he made a really long post.

Wrong here. I did read ATPG's analysis. It has some holes in parts and regarding some of the more eccentric players yes. But, the simple players I'd say it was quite reasonable. But, you'd expect that. I voted you on the simple grounds that you are acting odd when there wasn't much pressure on you. ATPG was in the lead by a few votes, then you started acting incredibly defensive. A couple more votes, plus me to tie and you start acting desperate. Why?

[Chaotix]

Vote: Abstain

I don't think either of them are guilty, and I'm not going to choose between them right now. If possible, we should tie it up again and make it a no lynch.

I will, however, argue for ATPG's innocence. I will leave this comment here and see if people pick up on it.

ATPG must have known that making a post accusing a bunch of people and claiming others as innocent would get him a lot of attention, and quite possibly votes as well. That post of his was so huge, it probably took him a few hours to write it. Now, I'm not saying his post is logical or illogical; it has both mixed in there. But do you seriously think that ATPG would spend two or three hours crafting this huge post full of his own plausible-if-not-necessarily-correct theories, that he knew would probably get him lynched within a few days anyway, if he was mafia? That would be one of a useless post there if he went and faked it all up.