The Godfather, Part 3 [Concluded]

[Beefy187]

This is simply Mexican stand off. Who ever moves first will get bandwagon.

I don't think anyone will move until all four of us are here. At least I wont

[Askthepizzaguy]

Oh come now Atpg, this is just being a bad sport with statements like these...

No, no Reenk!

I am simply trying to highlight a very, very simple fact: It is IMPOSSIBLE to lynch the Godfather this round without at least 2 votes. And the Godfather can escape by tying the vote with the remaining voter.

If the town wants to WIN this round, ALL TOWNIES MUST VOTE THE SAME WAY. It's a mathematical fact.

I will say it over and over until GH tosses me out of the thread, or the discussion about a tie ends, as is my prerogative.

I refuse to let the town commit suicide. Choose the wrong person to lynch, now that's fine and dandy. But I will be darned to heck if I will allow my fellow townies to point the gun and their own head and pull the trigger ON PURPOSE.

[Reenk Roink]

Well not that but saying you'll never play again if the group takes a certain action? The game would miss you...

[Beefy187]

I understand what you mean ATPG. But we can't vote for the same person until all of us are here, and understands exactly who to vote.

Andres isn't around, taka haven't seen what happened in the last few hours. We sit tight until we are confident that we catch the right man. Until then no one should move.

[Beefy187]

I refuse to let the town commit suicide. Choose the wrong person to lynch, now that's fine and dandy. But I will be darned to heck if I will allow my fellow townies to point the gun and their own head and pull the trigger ON PURPOSE.

Then they'll be replaced by GH. We aren't allowed to suicide remember?

[Askthepizzaguy]

Well not that but saying you'll never play again if the group takes a certain action? The game would miss you...

Reenk Roink:

After all the work I put into this game, it is my final dying request, that if you are going to try to lynch the Godfather, you all agree beforehand, and put 3 votes on him. To do otherwise is to allow the Godfather to win, and I feel that slightly dishonors all the people who did their best to win.

If you prefer, I offer a third alternative:

Happily Ever After.

We all agree that there will be no lynching today, no murder tonight, and we all walk away with the victory, together.

You want sportsmanship, Reenk, I say you earned it, but darn it, town deserves a piece of the pie as well. This game was epic enough, that I would be happy with a draw.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Yeah, but I wouldn't be. And my opinion matters more than the collective weight of yours'.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Hello.

Let's say player A is the godfather. We tie up the vote like so:

Player A: 2 (B, C)
Player B: 2 (A, D)

If the godfather switches his vote at the last minute he will be lynched.


*****

To have a tie, you will need all four remaining players to cooperate. This one will certainly not.

It'll be fun! Come on!

Besides, all we have to do is put two on beefy and one on someone else, and in that case you have to either tie it or let beefy die.

[Reenk Roink]

The win and loss is honestly meaningless at this stage. Would anyone seriously consider the Godfather's play any less magnificent if he ended up losing in the final round? I at least wouldn't, not at all.

Nobody deserves anything but fun Atpg. The work done in this game shouldn't be for the purpose of winning alone, that should be less than 1% of the reason in my view. The over 99% I play these games and think on them and write up posts is to laugh and enjoy.

The ride is a lot more important than the destination.

Just my perspective on some things...

[Askthepizzaguy]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Hello.

Let's say player A is the godfather. We tie up the vote like so:

Player A: 2 (B, C)
Player B: 2 (A, D)

If the godfather switches his vote at the last minute he will be lynched.


*****



It'll be fun! Come on!

Besides, all we have to do is put two on beefy and one on someone else, and in that case you have to either tie it or let beefy die.

No deal, Sasaki. (If my opinion matters)

Not only does it risk everything on the notion that we have to put two votes on the Godfather, but I believe you tagged the wrong person as the Godfather, maybe even on purpose.

If GH won't want a draw for a result of this game, then I say there shouldn't be a tie. It's too much of a gamble, and it's a bad one.


@Reenk Roink,

Oh I agree... but if we aren't at least putting in a little effort to win, there's no point in devising strategies and thinking about our votes.

If we are going to have a game, yes fun comes first, but we should still play to win as well. I already offered a draw as a possible outcome, which proves I don't care about winning, just about having a fun outcome, but GH won't allow it, so...

Town's best strategy is to avoid the tie. That's a bad idea, it's all I am saying. And like I said, if town isn't sure it's Reenk Roink, put 3 votes on anyone else, I don't really care. I know who I would pick, but I voted for myself in round 5, thereby taking away my ability to vote.

All I am asking is for town to follow a sane endgame strategy, nothing more.

[Beefy187]

You can't get a draw ATPG. You don't understand mafia. They are greedy creatures. They want the whole pie for them selves.

So the points that you are trying to make ATPG is basically that if its a 2-2 tie situation or 1-1-1-1 four way tie situation, mafia is able to switch their votes and get their victory yes?

What I am trying to say and probably what others are trying to say is that we can't get a 3-1 situation happening unless all of us are here and decides on who to vote for.

So we are on the same foot in terms of concepts. Its just the matter of timing that we are different in

[Beefy187]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

No deal, Sasaki. (If my opinion matters)

Not only does it risk everything on the notion that we have to put two votes on the Godfather, but I believe you tagged the wrong person as the Godfather, maybe even on purpose.

If GH won't want a draw for a result of this game, then I say there shouldn't be a tie. It's too much of a gamble, and it's a bad one.

Alright how about me and Reenk for the two candidates? Then its Never Winters Mafia all over again

Both of you will be satisfied then wouldn't you?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

The win and loss is honestly meaningless at this stage. Would anyone seriously consider the Godfather's play any less magnificent if he ended up losing in the final round? I at least wouldn't, not at all.

Nobody deserves anything but fun Atpg. The work done in this game shouldn't be for the purpose of winning alone, that should be less than 1% of the reason in my view. The over 99% I play these games and think on them and write up posts is to laugh and enjoy.

The ride is a lot more important than the destination.

Just my perspective on some things...

Agreed

Not only does it risk everything on the notion that we have to put two votes on the Godfather,

As opposed to risking everything on on the notion that we've put three votes on the godfather? Having all the dead vote would be fun, admit it.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Alright how about me and Reenk for the two candidates? Then its Never Winters Mafia all over again

Both of you will be satisfied then wouldn't you?

So you don't think Andres is guilty after all

[Askthepizzaguy]

If town seriously thinks that you're the Godfather, Beefy, why not lynch you now? I don't think you are, so I fail to see the point. Don't mind me, I'm dead and slightly crazy after some 300 odd posts here.

But, if everyone would be willing to lock in their votes for the tie, fine! Let the dead vote. I seriously doubt that the dead will pick Beefy over Reenk Roink, but let's let them decide that. Trouble is, everyone, including the Godfather, would have to agree to tie the votes, and since the role of the Godfather is to lie, he can possibly weasel his way out if it, I just find it to be an unnecessary risk.

Why not have a clean ending to the game? 3 votes on one player, and that's it. Why make it more complicated than it needs to be?

If everyone here gave a gentleman's agreement to LEAVE IT a tie, then fine. The Godfather will have to betray everyone's trust and his own word to win, which I feel is unsportsmanlike. So... that's my proposal.


1. 3 votes on one candidate to end the game

OR

2. Gentleman's agreement to keep the vote tied.

I'd be fine with either. See, I am listening to you, Sasaki... I just find it interesting your proposals make it less likely town will win, is all. Plus the unicyclist seemed to really, really have it out for ya...

[Beefy187]

I'm not sure. I'm waiting for Andres to show up so i get to hear more from him.

But if you Sasaki are desperate wanting me lynched and ATPG are wanting Reenk lynched I just thought I'll suggest that.

But its likely to start up with 4 way tie when he does

[Reenk Roink]

The problem is you are looking at it from one perspective Atpg.

Why should the Godfather agree to such unfair terms in his view? He should certainly have to option to pull a fast last second vote switch to secure victory.

[Askthepizzaguy]

The problem is you are looking at it from one perspective Atpg.

Why should the Godfather agree to such unfair terms in his view? He should certainly have to option to pull a fast last second vote switch to secure victory.

And THAT is precisely why I am totally against the idea, and we shouldn't do it.

3 votes ends the game. That's the best way to end it. Others are suggesting a tie which you clearly won't accept, and a draw which you won't accept and GH won't allow.

So, 3 votes to end the game. It's obvious that's the way the game has to end.


And, yeah... never again:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Askthepizzaguy 303
Sasaki Kojiro 152
Beefy187 136
GeneralHankerchief 128
TinCow 104
Andres 102
Reenk Roink 90
777Ares777 88
shlin28 86
White_eyes:D 79
Quintus.JC 59
Seamus Fermanagh 58
seireikhaan 50
LittleGrizzly 48
YLC 40
taka 38
Psychonaut 31
Gaius Scribonius Curio 27
glyphz 26
Chaotix27 25
Lord Winter 21
Jolt 21
TevashSzat 18
CountArach 18
Sigurd 15
boudica 13
pevergreen 12
Ichigo 11
Tratorix 9
Ignoramus 5
Myrddraal 2
Ituralde 1

¡Ay, caramba! I've lost my freaking mind.

[Reenk Roink]

And THAT is precisely why I am totally against the idea, and we shouldn't do it.

3 votes ends the game. That's the best way to end it. Others are suggesting a tie which you clearly won't accept, and a draw which you won't accept and GH won't allow.

So, 3 votes to end the game. It's obvious that's the way the game has to end.

So you are against the idea of the Godfather utilizing a legal stratagem in his victory?

The rules don't restrict this behavior, why should you?

[Beefy187]

And I'm sure our "playful" host will enjoy the looks on mafias face by granting the town a extension of few extra hours if someone did a vote switch

Thats what I hope it will happen although, if three of youz can stay online near the finishing to make sure you can react fast that should be able to prevent it

[Sasaki Kojiro]

And THAT is precisely why I am totally against the idea, and we shouldn't do it.

What are the odds of one player out of the 4 being the godfather?

What are the odds of the godfather being one of the tied players when 2 out of 4 are tied?

[Beefy187]

And if tie continues after the voting extension deadline.. Dead will be allowed to vote. Dead are very very fair aren't they?

[Askthepizzaguy]

So you are against the idea of the Godfather utilizing a legal stratagem in his victory?

The rules don't restrict this behavior, why should you?

Do whatever you like to win the game, Reenk, but others suggested an honourable tie, which you rejected, and so therefore, I reject the idea of allowing a tie to be broken by you.

I don't object to you doing what you have to do to WIN, Reenk...
I just think that the rest of the townies shouldn't go along with your nefarious plan, as I am entitled to think and express freely.

[taka]

right ive read everything posted in the last few hours.

hm......

i'm gonna dissapoint Pizza in saying that i think the 2 way tie is a good to go as long as reenk is one of the 2

as for the other scummy, i just really don't know, as long as its reenk + one (me even, if anyone considers me scummy) i'm willing to do so.

mathematically, sasaki's lynch table

Player A: 2 (B, C)
Player B: 2 (A, D)

is good for me aswell

all we need to decide now is, who's the scummiest of us all?

i think there's no need for me to say who i think is scummy

[Askthepizzaguy]

What are the odds of one player out of the 4 being the godfather?

What are the odds of the godfather being one of the tied players when 2 out of 4 are tied?

Reenk already rejected the idea of a tie, so this discussion is moot.

I propose we move on to discuss who the Godfather is. It is relevant.

@Taka:

Reenk already rejected the idea of a tie, because he said he would break it, in so many words.

To have a tie, you will need all four remaining players to cooperate. This one will certainly not.

So, everyone understands now, a tie is off the table as an option.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

And if tie continues after the voting extension deadline.. Dead will be allowed to vote. Dead are very very fair aren't they?

It would be more fun...

[Beefy187]

My ideal tie will be Andres and Reenk. But I guess ill have to be one of them.

Although, I will want a 3-1 as I won't be able to sit around till 3 o clock.

2-2 is fine for me too. Now that I know how 2-2 works, I won't object it

[Reenk Roink]

And I'm sure our "playful" host will enjoy the looks on mafias face by granting the town a extension of few extra hours if someone did a vote switch

Thats what I hope it will happen although, if three of youz can stay online near the finishing to make sure you can react fast that should be able to prevent it

I had this happen to me in Whispers of the Night where I put on a vote on Sigurd with less than 20 minutes to spare at 2 AM time here.

But the round was extended for almost 2 hours. Now, had my original quick plan worked, I don't think I did anything wrong or unethical at all? Do people share the same opinion and if not, why not?

Personally, if/when I ever host, I will set voting deadlines and not change them unless well in advance. I will allow last minute vote switches. And to make it fair to peoples in all time zones I will set deadlines at differing times every round randomly.

Sorry to derail into a Mafia ethics tangent but we have time and are waiting.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

right ive read everything posted in the last few hours.

hm......

i'm gonna dissapoint Pizza in saying that i think the 2 way tie is a good to go as long as reenk is one of the 2

as for the other scummy, i just really don't know, as long as its reenk + one (me even, if anyone considers me scummy) i'm willing to do so.

mathematically, sasaki's lynch table

Player A: 2 (B, C)
Player B: 2 (A, D)

is good for me aswell

all we need to decide now is, who's the scummiest of us all?

i think there's no need for me to say who i think is scummy

Well, since reenk has indicated that he isn't willing, we would need this:

Beefy: 2 (taka, Andres)
Reenk: 1 (Beefy)

Then reenk can either tie it by voting himself, or break his vow to protect beefy...

You'd have to switch your vote to beefy though, because we can't have beefy voting himself and we can't trust reenk's vote on beefy.

[Reenk Roink]

Do whatever you like to win the game, Reenk, but others suggested an honourable tie, which you rejected, and so therefore, I reject the idea of allowing a tie to be broken by you.

I don't object to you doing what you have to do to WIN, Reenk...
I just think that the rest of the townies shouldn't go along with your nefarious plan, as I am entitled to think and express freely.

Sorry, but the draw is a cheap cop out, and is not honorable in my view. If you reject an idea, so be it, but you have no vote. You shouldn't threaten to stop your participation in games if the voting doesn't go as you wish - that was my point.

Also, I am speaking in generals here about a topic that goes above the game, please let's keep the accusations out of it.