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Thread: Rituals Pre- and post-battle

  1. #1
    Member Member Cyrus's Avatar
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    Default Rituals Pre- and post-battle

    For a school progect i have to do some reserches on 2 topics: rituals pre-,during and post-battle for romans; same thing for greeks of classical age and I was hoping someone in here could please help me.
    So if any of those experts out there could help i'd really appreciate it.
    Also i would really enjoy an answer, since i posted the same request in an other post of mine but in 4-5 days i've had no answer relative to the matter.
    P.S. i'm particularly intrested in the peana, i know it was a chant to inspire troops in honour to apollo but have no idea what it said.
    P.P.S i kinda also need a map of roman expansion in the year 245.
    Last edited by Cyrus; 01-28-2009 at 19:55.


    Italians do it better! Chi dice donna dice guai. Abbi donna di te minore, se vuoi essere signore. Donne e buoi dei paesi tuoi. Fiume, grondaia e donna parlatora mandano l'uomo di casa fuora.
    And my personal favorite: "Non rimuovere il confine antico fissato dai tuoi padri". In english: "Do not remove the anchent border placed by your fathers". It looses something in the translation......

  2. #2
    Probably Drunk Member Reverend Joe's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rituals Pre- and post-battle

    Visit your public library.


  3. #3

    Default Re: Rituals Pre- and post-battle

    Research sacrifices.


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    EB TRIBVNVS PLEBIS Member MarcusAureliusAntoninus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rituals Pre- and post-battle

    Doesn't have your exact date, but here are two expansion maps (I think one comes from wikipedia):



    Last edited by MarcusAureliusAntoninus; 01-29-2009 at 01:09.


  5. #5

    Default Re: Rituals Pre- and post-battle

    That is a very, very cool map.

    I like.

  6. #6
    Member Member Cyrus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rituals Pre- and post-battle

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend Joe View Post
    Visit your public library.

    if yall look in the other post of mine you willfind out why i cant do that.
    and i already searched but really didn't find the right amount of details.
    Also thanks a lot MAA for the map. But the second one might be wrong as it shows rome in 270 holding Calabria and Bruttia.
    Last edited by Cyrus; 01-29-2009 at 08:25.


    Italians do it better! Chi dice donna dice guai. Abbi donna di te minore, se vuoi essere signore. Donne e buoi dei paesi tuoi. Fiume, grondaia e donna parlatora mandano l'uomo di casa fuora.
    And my personal favorite: "Non rimuovere il confine antico fissato dai tuoi padri". In english: "Do not remove the anchent border placed by your fathers". It looses something in the translation......

  7. #7
    I is da bestest at grammar Member Strategos Alexandros's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rituals Pre- and post-battle

    They did.
    - my first balloon, from Mouzafphaerre
    - LS balloon

    Modo Egredior
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  8. #8
    Tuba Son Member Subotan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rituals Pre- and post-battle

    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusAureliusAntoninus View Post
    Second Map
    Could anyone give me some info on the Illyrian remnant of the Westertn Roman Empire, the Romans in the Crimea, and a Roman Moorish Kingdom I've heard about that survived the Vandals. They seem to be quite obscure, so I can't find much info, but that's what makes them so interesting.

  9. #9
    Member Member Cyrus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rituals Pre- and post-battle

    Quote Originally Posted by strategos alexandros View Post
    They did.
    You are telling me that they took two of the biggest regions in italy in less than 2 years?
    Plus i kinda was wondering why noone has even given me a link to a decent site. i don't think i'm asking to much just some info on rituals. I've seen much more difficult questions answered much quiker than this, i've been waiting almost a week and have gotten no answers. Please, the paper is due in 3 days!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Last edited by Cyrus; 01-30-2009 at 16:54.


    Italians do it better! Chi dice donna dice guai. Abbi donna di te minore, se vuoi essere signore. Donne e buoi dei paesi tuoi. Fiume, grondaia e donna parlatora mandano l'uomo di casa fuora.
    And my personal favorite: "Non rimuovere il confine antico fissato dai tuoi padri". In english: "Do not remove the anchent border placed by your fathers". It looses something in the translation......

  10. #10
    EB TRIBVNVS PLEBIS Member MarcusAureliusAntoninus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rituals Pre- and post-battle

    Once Tarentum fell in 272BC, the whole of southern Italy was basically under Roman control.

    I don't really know much on battle rituals...


  11. #11
    Guitar God Member Mediolanicus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rituals Pre- and post-battle

    Well, there's the story about that Roman general in that sea battle with Carthage, who threw the holy chickens overboard because they wouldn't eat (then let them drink). If chickens, released from their cages, would storm for the food and peck it, it would be considered a good omen for battle. If they didn't eat, it was a bad omen.
    The general lost the sea battle. (I forgot all the names).

    And I vaguely remember something about birds warning Roman defenders during the seige and sack of Rome by Brennus, but I could be wrong there

    Other than that, look for "the evil eye" (Romans are good at those) and curses and stuff.
    Look for the Augures, who would interpret omens.
    Looking at organs of ritually slaughtered animals (it has a name but I forgot, but it would be done by the Haruspex) and the flight of birds (auspicium) also were ways to tell how the battle would turn out.

    I suppose making offerings of food and incense to the Lares (house gods) to saveguard the pater familias or another family member would be done also.

    There's a festival called Equiria, in honor of Mars, held in early spring during which the campaigns for the following campaign season were planned (and possibly pleasing Mars into granting them victory).

    Can't think of anything else at the moment.
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    Member Member Dutchhoplite's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rituals Pre- and post-battle

    Well, there's the story about that Roman general in that sea battle with Carthage, who threw the holy chickens overboard because they wouldn't eat (then let them drink). If chickens, released from their cages, would storm for the food and peck it, it would be considered a good omen for battle. If they didn't eat, it was a bad omen.The general lost the sea battle. (I forgot all the names).
    Publius Claudius Pulcher at the battle of Drepanum.

    He threw all the sacred chickens overboard saying "If they won't eat, let them drink", since they refused to eat before the battle.

    And I vaguely remember something about birds warning Roman defenders during the seige and sack of Rome by Brennus, but I could be wrong there
    Geese warned the sleeping Romans defenders when the Gauls tried to surprise them.
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    I is da bestest at grammar Member Strategos Alexandros's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rituals Pre- and post-battle

    Polybius may contain something: http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin...ookup=Plb.+toc
    I would check for you myself but I don't have the time right now. The search function might find you something else too.
    Last edited by Strategos Alexandros; 01-31-2009 at 14:25.
    - my first balloon, from Mouzafphaerre
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  14. #14
    Member Member Cyrus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rituals Pre- and post-battle

    Does anyone have any idea wich chapters of polybius' histories i have to gh through to find the info i need? And thank you all for your answers.
    Last edited by Cyrus; 01-31-2009 at 17:44.


    Italians do it better! Chi dice donna dice guai. Abbi donna di te minore, se vuoi essere signore. Donne e buoi dei paesi tuoi. Fiume, grondaia e donna parlatora mandano l'uomo di casa fuora.
    And my personal favorite: "Non rimuovere il confine antico fissato dai tuoi padri". In english: "Do not remove the anchent border placed by your fathers". It looses something in the translation......

  15. #15
    Member Member Cyrus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rituals Pre- and post-battle

    Hello? Would anyone mind answering?


    Italians do it better! Chi dice donna dice guai. Abbi donna di te minore, se vuoi essere signore. Donne e buoi dei paesi tuoi. Fiume, grondaia e donna parlatora mandano l'uomo di casa fuora.
    And my personal favorite: "Non rimuovere il confine antico fissato dai tuoi padri". In english: "Do not remove the anchent border placed by your fathers". It looses something in the translation......

  16. #16
    Guitar God Member Mediolanicus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rituals Pre- and post-battle

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrus View Post
    Hello? Would anyone mind answering?
    In my experience, people are less helpful when you urge them.

    I wouldn't mind answering, but I really don't know which lines of Polybius could be useful.
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    Σέλευκος Νικάτωρ Member Fluvius Camillus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rituals Pre- and post-battle

    Quote Originally Posted by Subotan View Post
    Could anyone give me some info on the Illyrian remnant of the Westertn Roman Empire, the Romans in the Crimea, and a Roman Moorish Kingdom I've heard about that survived the Vandals. They seem to be quite obscure, so I can't find much info, but that's what makes them so interesting.
    The Last Remnant of the Western Empire is the one of Julius Nepos, The emperor before Romulus Augustus.

    http://www.roman-empire.net/collapse...pse-index.html
    Read the last parts of this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Equilibrius
    Oh my god, i think that is the first time in human history that someone cares to explain an acronym that people expect everybody to know in advance.
    I lived for three years not knowing what AAR is.

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  18. #18
    Member Member Cyrus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rituals Pre- and post-battle

    Quote Originally Posted by Mediolanicus View Post
    In my experience, people are less helpful when you urge them.

    I wouldn't mind answering, but I really don't know which lines of Polybius could be useful.
    I'm sorry i didn't mean to be rude but the project is due in 2 days and I still have very little material.
    So please if anyone out there knows anything about Roman and greek rituals pre and post battle post here!!!!!!!!!!!!!


    Italians do it better! Chi dice donna dice guai. Abbi donna di te minore, se vuoi essere signore. Donne e buoi dei paesi tuoi. Fiume, grondaia e donna parlatora mandano l'uomo di casa fuora.
    And my personal favorite: "Non rimuovere il confine antico fissato dai tuoi padri". In english: "Do not remove the anchent border placed by your fathers". It looses something in the translation......

  19. #19
    Member Member Cyrus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rituals Pre- and post-battle

    Ok now it's pretty frustrating, I know there are a ton of experts that could help me on this site, plus there have been more or less 600 views, how come of those 600 only 6 answered?
    Please i really need help, c'mon.


    Italians do it better! Chi dice donna dice guai. Abbi donna di te minore, se vuoi essere signore. Donne e buoi dei paesi tuoi. Fiume, grondaia e donna parlatora mandano l'uomo di casa fuora.
    And my personal favorite: "Non rimuovere il confine antico fissato dai tuoi padri". In english: "Do not remove the anchent border placed by your fathers". It looses something in the translation......

  20. #20
    Member Member Dutchhoplite's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rituals Pre- and post-battle

    Well, this may sound harsh but *i* don't think people come here to do your homework. You can only hope for the best and find some helpfull people.

    Succes!
    Last edited by Dutchhoplite; 02-04-2009 at 21:34.
    I love the smell of bronze in the morning!

    Campaigns completed: Vanilla Seleucid, EB 1.2. Carthaginian, RSII Pergamon

  21. #21
    Member Member Cyrus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rituals Pre- and post-battle

    what difference would it have made if i haden't added that i need it for scool? would people have answered me quicker?
    C'mon.....
    anyway i'm not triyng to plagiorise(sorry but i have no idea how to spell that word) any of the work on here, i just would like to know how the greeks and romans would make the gods happy before a battleand how they'd thank 'em after a victory. Plus i have a new question, often xenophon and thukydides and herodotus after a greek army won a battle they'd erect a trophy. What where tese things, i know they were like to simbplise victory but what did they look like?
    Last edited by Cyrus; 02-04-2009 at 22:06.


    Italians do it better! Chi dice donna dice guai. Abbi donna di te minore, se vuoi essere signore. Donne e buoi dei paesi tuoi. Fiume, grondaia e donna parlatora mandano l'uomo di casa fuora.
    And my personal favorite: "Non rimuovere il confine antico fissato dai tuoi padri". In english: "Do not remove the anchent border placed by your fathers". It looses something in the translation......

  22. #22
    Member Member Cyrus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rituals Pre- and post-battle

    C'mon. please......
    all I really need is even just a link to decent site that could help me, i've done most of the reserch by now but still can't find anything on trophys.


    Italians do it better! Chi dice donna dice guai. Abbi donna di te minore, se vuoi essere signore. Donne e buoi dei paesi tuoi. Fiume, grondaia e donna parlatora mandano l'uomo di casa fuora.
    And my personal favorite: "Non rimuovere il confine antico fissato dai tuoi padri". In english: "Do not remove the anchent border placed by your fathers". It looses something in the translation......

  23. #23
    I is da bestest at grammar Member Strategos Alexandros's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rituals Pre- and post-battle

    Quote Originally Posted by Osprey Greek Hoplite 480-323BC View Post
    Some of the captured armour might be used to erect a trophy (tropaion) at the point where the 'turn round' (trope) of the enemy had first occurred. Usually it was nailed to a nearby tree as a monument of the battle.
    - my first balloon, from Mouzafphaerre
    - LS balloon

    Modo Egredior
    https://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bi...ookup=Plb.+toc <- read this!
    "Do you know what's worth fighting for?
    When it's not worth dying for?"

  24. #24
    Member Member Cyrus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rituals Pre- and post-battle

    Wow thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    A lot.


    Italians do it better! Chi dice donna dice guai. Abbi donna di te minore, se vuoi essere signore. Donne e buoi dei paesi tuoi. Fiume, grondaia e donna parlatora mandano l'uomo di casa fuora.
    And my personal favorite: "Non rimuovere il confine antico fissato dai tuoi padri". In english: "Do not remove the anchent border placed by your fathers". It looses something in the translation......

  25. #25
    Member Member Dutchhoplite's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rituals Pre- and post-battle

    Roman coins ;)



    Julius Caesar Denarius with the Head of Venus wearing a crown as a sign of royalty is on the left. On its right is the Trophy of Gallic arms with seated captives at either side of base, with "CAESAR" below as emblem.



    Caesar,gold aureus, 48 BCE
    I love the smell of bronze in the morning!

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  26. #26
    Member Member Cyrus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rituals Pre- and post-battle

    Thanks a lot both of you, this really helps.
    I do have a few curiosities thow, like did the romans start building trophys as a result of greek influence or did they have the same idea? Plus i know that hoplites after a battle had to be recognised and properly buried, would this happen also with the roman soldiers?
    Thx in advance


    Italians do it better! Chi dice donna dice guai. Abbi donna di te minore, se vuoi essere signore. Donne e buoi dei paesi tuoi. Fiume, grondaia e donna parlatora mandano l'uomo di casa fuora.
    And my personal favorite: "Non rimuovere il confine antico fissato dai tuoi padri". In english: "Do not remove the anchent border placed by your fathers". It looses something in the translation......

  27. #27
    Member Member Cyrus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rituals Pre- and post-battle

    Hello? anyone in there?


    Italians do it better! Chi dice donna dice guai. Abbi donna di te minore, se vuoi essere signore. Donne e buoi dei paesi tuoi. Fiume, grondaia e donna parlatora mandano l'uomo di casa fuora.
    And my personal favorite: "Non rimuovere il confine antico fissato dai tuoi padri". In english: "Do not remove the anchent border placed by your fathers". It looses something in the translation......

  28. #28
    Member Member Dutchhoplite's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rituals Pre- and post-battle

    Private message for mister Cyrus!
    I love the smell of bronze in the morning!

    Campaigns completed: Vanilla Seleucid, EB 1.2. Carthaginian, RSII Pergamon

  29. #29
    Member Member Cyrus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rituals Pre- and post-battle

    Thx very much Dutch hoplite.
    But unfortunately i am still completely ignorant about roman rituals, so if any one could answer my previous questions :"did the romans start building trophys as a result of greek influence or did they have the same idea? Plus i know that hoplites after a battle had to be recognised and properly buried, would this happen also with the roman soldiers?" i'd really appreciate it.
    Last edited by Cyrus; 02-09-2009 at 21:28.


    Italians do it better! Chi dice donna dice guai. Abbi donna di te minore, se vuoi essere signore. Donne e buoi dei paesi tuoi. Fiume, grondaia e donna parlatora mandano l'uomo di casa fuora.
    And my personal favorite: "Non rimuovere il confine antico fissato dai tuoi padri". In english: "Do not remove the anchent border placed by your fathers". It looses something in the translation......

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