Troubles legacy..

[Furunculus]

wrong. i don't accept that giving the families of terrorists compensation money for being the family of terrorists is just.

the compensation is recognition of partial responsibility by HMG for not protecting her citizens from things such as terrorist attacks.

[Tribesman]

wrong. i don't accept that giving the families of terrorists compensation money for being the family of terrorists is just.

Well in that case the other option is for the expensive case by case hearings , and since you know that HMG were often operating outside the law that means lots of court verdicts of unlawful killing and bigger payouts to terrorists families.

So you are faced with two options really .
Go for the cheap keep it quiet option or go for the very very expensive publicly drag your country through the mud before paying more option .
Such is the price of the peace process .

[KukriKhan]

Isn't the truth and reconciliation process about trying to stop the cycle of retribution and blood-feud, by recognizing the hurt suffered by those who've survived the conflict?

Maybe I'm wrong there.

But, if I'm right, the empasis has to be on paying the survivors of the conflict for the loss of their loved-one/kinsman a symbolic amount, NOT linked to his/her affiliations or atrocities, but to the premature loss of that member's services to the family.

In that sense, t&r resembles an insurance company. With the (hopeful) side-effect that the dead guys' kin are tired of the conflict, and mererly seek validation of THEIR sacrifice, promising to forget or forgive or both, the issues both sides fought for.

The only question remaining: who pays?

[InsaneApache]

The only question remaining: who pays?

The UK taxpayer.

I watched This Week last night and there is a very good analysis about the problems in Ulster from Denis Murray who is from there and still lives there. The analogy with Sud Afrika is misplaced. Although the political leaders have achieved impressive things, unheard of just ten years ago, the 'people' still have a lot of bitterness and resentment.

The money thing is just one of a whole raft of measures floated to help heal over old wounds. (I like me mixed metaphors me )

[Tribesman]

Maybe I'm wrong there.

No you are spot on .

But, if I'm right, the empasis has to be on paying the survivors of the conflict for the loss of their loved-one/kinsman a symbolic amount, NOT linked to his/her affiliations or atrocities, but to the premature loss of that member's services to the family.

Exactly .

So while for example you have Furunculus saying I don't care if what was done was wrong or illegal because my side was right so it doesn't matter if they did bad stuff becuse the other side was really wrong .
You will have people on the other sides saying exactly the same from the opposite perspectives .

Which means the easiet way out is to say all sides were wrong but it must be put in the past .
Yes it isn't pleasant , but life often isn't .

[Fisherking]

Siding with Tribesman at this point,


Is seems like the Government is trying to lance the Boil.

Screaming that one side or the other was right is just being part of the Infection.

Making one side more Right than the other is just going to make a new Abscess.

Both sides lost people and have deep hurt. Both sides are people who have hopes and dreams of a better future.

Address the pain as best you can and move on.

Baring that your patient is going to die from this Ulster disease…

[KukriKhan]

The UK taxpayer.

I watched This Week last night and there is a very good analysis about the problems in Ulster from Denis Murray who is from there and still lives there. The analogy with Sud Afrika is misplaced. Although the political leaders have achieved impressive things, unheard of just ten years ago, the 'people' still have a lot of bitterness and resentment.

The money thing is just one of a whole raft of measures floated to help heal over old wounds. (I like me mixed metaphors me )

The first t&r thingee was 1995, right? So, we're really just crossing our fingers and hoping this way of resolving conflict can "stick", for at least a generation. If it doesn't stick, then we're back to the old victor's-justice way. I don't mind saying I'm a little uncomfortable with truth-and-reconciliation, because it looks and feels like it rewards 'bad' behavior.

BUT, if it stops or reduces the rate of killing, by removing some of the motivations for it, from all sides, I'll learn to embrace it.

[Tribesman]

I don't mind saying I'm a little uncomfortable with truth-and-reconciliation

People are not supposed to feel comfortable with it , it isn't a nice comfortable choice .
But are the other choices worse ?
Personally I am not happy with this , I would want every bastard involved in this fully exposed in public for every despicable action they did.....but would that help the situation much ?
So while these proposals are a bitter pill to swallow , maybe they are the best medicine for the long running sickness that is the six counties .

[Incongruous]

People are not supposed to feel comfortable with it , it isn't a nice comfortable choice .
But are the other choices worse ?
Personally I am not happy with this , I would want every bastard involved in this fully exposed in public for every despicable action they did.....but would that help the situation much ?

Wouldn't it?
I don't understand how these scum can still have such a hold on British society, I'm perplexed...

Jesus the UK Govt. is drowning in crap over its dodging of dodginess, why not just name and shame this time?

I mean, there were good guys and bastards on both sides right? Why not differenciate based oin that?
I am guessing soem men with mates might be embarrassed?

[Strike For The South]

Why can't we all just get along?

[KukriKhan]

Why can't we all just get along?

"I am Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die."

We all have an Inigo Montoya in us. If we want our kids and grandkids to live in peace with their neighbors, whose grandfathers fought our grandfathers, we have to suppress Señor Montoya, and find another way.